[conspire] July schedule posted
rick at linuxmafia.com
Tue Jul 7 16:15:40 PDT 2009
Quoting Tony Godshall (tony at of.net):
> Oh, OK. So then parsing HTML is not needed. Very good.
Again, I'm not 100% certain I understand what you mean when you make
that remark, so I'll review.
1. The CABAL page is (still) using a flat HTML table for its calendar
events. Its HTML source is the canonical upstream data. Absent some
rewrite of the page, the only way you're going to generate iCalendar
from it is to parse HTML.
2. The BALE page _used_ to have the same sort of HTML table. In fact,
I seem to recall creating the CABAL page's calendar data originally by
copying and pasting HTML snippets out of the original incarnation of
Some years ago, to make BALE easier to maintain and (arguably) more
consistently accurate, Deirdre coded an ingenious PHP/MySQL replacement
for the primordial BALE setup, thus using index.php rather than
index.html, and running a monthly Python cronjob to create "events"
table entries for an additional upcoming month as specified in separate
It is not necessary to "parse HTML" to convert the HTML output data
created by BALE's index.php into iCalendar format. The less-roundabout
alternative is to query it out of MySQL, much the way index.php does.
I could swear I stressed that BALE is PHP/MySQL-based right when you
started talking about this matter, specifically to avert any such
confusion -- though I could be misremembering.
> > BALE _used_ to be flat HTML. Then, we templatised and automated it.
> > These days, I have to use my choice of MySQL tool, if I have to edit
> > either an event template, or edit an event already generated from a
> > template or entered by me manually.
> > Having to chase down events already generated by template is
> > particularly tedious. For example, Smaug in Santa Cruz, which meets
> > every Monday night, has just decided to change locations, which means I
> > need to chase down and edit three months of events rows for them, in
> > addition to editing the template to fix future months not yet generated.
> Going vcalendar-based would help you there since repetitions can
> have expiration dates. You just replicate the event, change one's
> expiration, the other's start, and adjust the new one's details.
Again, I'm well aware of that feature of the vCalendar / iCalendar
One of the advantages of Deirdre's design is that its treatment of
recurring events is, in general, smarter than those of the RFC 2445 and
related specs. There's a clever bit she has to indicate an event being
on "5th or last" days, which was one of the bizarre variations that one
of the groups threw at us (Bay Area NeXT Group, now deceased).
She didn't implement beginning and end dates for templated events -- for
the simple reason that it wasn't part of the static design that she was
replacing -- but the great thing about the database design is that such
things can be added easily, just by adding two more columns to the
eventtemplate table, and then putting appropriate "if" statements in the
And I actually could, on reflection, avoid having to hunt down and
_edit_ already-generated events, by instead editing "eventtemplate",
then hunting down and _deleting_ the erroneous event rows, then
re-running newmonth.py: My recollection is that newmonth.py is designed
to fill in missing events for the months currently shown, but not
overwrite them if they exist in the "events" table.
I hadn't really worked out that logic, until this moment. Also, I've
been favouring editing generated events rather than deleting and
regenerating them in order to not have the events missing while I'm in
the middle of that work.
> I think I saw a tool in Linux that has those. Shouldn't have to do them
I sort of like "doing" them, to a degree. It allows me to express what
I think is worth expressing, in the way I consider worthwhile.
The selection of which holidays are worth including, and how to describe
them, is a matter of my personal expression.
I'm a writer. Writing and publishing is what writers do. Because I'm a
writer, and as a reflection of who I am, BALE includes a "Summer Solstice
/ Midsummer Day / Midsommardagen" entry in June, because it pleases me
to include the Norwegian / Old Norse spelling.
It includes "Luciadagen (St. Lucia's Day), Sweden" because I have a
Swedish mother-in-law. It includes "Mohandas K. Gandhi's birthday
(1869)" and "Juneteenth" because... well, just because I want them there.
It includes "Spring Equinox / Ostara / Eostar / Eostre" because I wanted
to remind people of the Saxon, Old High German, and Old English
antecedents of Easter (without hitting them over the head with it).
And BALE omits a whole lot of other allegedly noteworthy occasions
because it reflects my taste rather than that of, say, Hallmark (or "a
tool in Linux that has those").
In short, it is not a bug that I am an originator of information that is
written in my personal style and reflecting my personal tastes and
preferences. To the contrary: It's a design goal -- a consideration
that applies to the selection, wording, and presentation of all the
entries: recurring events, holidays, one-time technical events,
everything. The whole megillah. It's what I care to list, omitting
what I wish to omit, written and presented the way I like.
People sometimes act astonished and aggrieved when they hear that BALE
omits something they care about, or includes something they don't.
They tell me it's a "community resource", which sort of misses the
point: It's _my_ resource, my work (with Deirdre's code), written by
me, on my server, running in my house on bandwidth and electricy I write
chequees for. I'm happy if they use and like it, but ultimately it's an
expression of me, by me, for my purposes. Including the holidays.
> Nah, the way I'd do it is switch the "master" to something easier than
> HTML and switch the HTML to generated. But it turns out you already
> have a better master than the HTML, so it makes sense to generate
> both the HTML and the iCalendar from the SQL, I guess.
Yes, that's what I was thinking. However, the way your Python script
parses HTML would be neat for, say, the CABAL calendar -- if we can fix
the year-end and all-day-event problems.
> Yes, I understand now. You are testing using iCalendar to give people a
> dynamically- generated html of the icalendar stuff.
Well, sort of. (Where you say "using iCalendar", above, I gather that
you meant to say "using PHP iCalendar".)
PHP iCalendar (0.9.4) was already there -- has been there for many
years. All I did was plunk the bale.ics file generated by your script
into its data directory in order to see how PHP iCalendar presented it.
At first, the answer was "not at all", because your script omitted the
mandatory vCalendar header and footer -- and then "rather badly" because
your script wrote DESCRIPTION where SUMMARY is apparently what was
needed. And then, it turned out that the data needed some rearrangement
-- and all of those things were appropriate only after I loaded the file
in PHP iCalendar. (Please note that I'm not complaining in any way!
I'm just recapping.)
Basically, it was bog-standard QA: Given that the script allegedly
generated an iCal file, the necessary next step was to verify that at
least one iCal-parsing tool could read it and do useful things with it.
As I always say in a sysadmin context, "The task's not done until the
results are tested and verified." And PHP iCalendar was the tool I had
handy for that purpose.
> I'd do it statically with make file.
Well, of course. I plunked a copy into PHP iCalendar because it was
there. Didn't I _say_ that PHP iCalendar 0.9.4's been sitting around
since forever? [/me checks.] Yes, I did.
You know, we'll shorten the cycle time on these exchanges if you don't
make odd assumptions.
> Like you found, iCalendar processing is rather CPU-intensive.
PHP iCalendar 0.9.4 is perfectly tolerable, FWIW. 2.3.1 appears to be
More information about the conspire