[conspire] Transition from job policy to membership quality, SF-LUG

[jim stockford]

    As to policy, I stand firm: if the membership discusses and
coalesces around a policy, I'll doc it.
    There's no agreed proscription against; a statement
prohibiting job postings would not reflect the group sentiment.
    Some statement to the effect that job postings are okay
needlessly invites such and also doesn't truly represent the
group's sentiment.
    A statement that we have not agreed on a policy on job
postings, which is the truth, seems silly.

    The group has leaders who pop up from time to time, and
that suits me fine. I am prominent enough as it is without
penning policy statements prior to discussion. I am afraid
of anyone being too prominent--don't like the idea of
so-and-so's group.


transition.... Rick, I read an ad hominem element to your
writing, no offense taken, thanks for making me think,
regardless of your intention.


    Quality of membership, tire-kickers division: if membership
is those who've joined the mailing list, we have some
knowledgeable and experienced members, we have some
newbies, we have some that require particular categorization
(or not). The number is in the 70s, I believe, with over 80
email names registered (less Dierdre's recently, I was
sorry to see).
    I think it's a reasonable mix and insufficient in number.
    I have in the works brochures to distribute through the
neighborhoods (design paid for, partly written, not-yet-printed).
I believe if the number on the mailing list exceeds 150 we'll
have reached a critical threshold (tipping point) where there'll
be a steady stream of good quality technical material in the
email. I hope to get around to it.
    Tire-kickers should be welcome, in my view (if the group
decides not, it'll be despite my strenuous defense).
    I am sure many have booted from a live CD--I'm guessing
more than half. I know for a fact that over 20% have installed
Linux, a few with full-blown networks at their homes (this
based on visits to homes and/or conversations verifying).
    As to all of us learning, I have set up a network with sshd
access and repeatedly invited people to play. A few take
me up on getting a login and maybe log in but never explore--
the reason I spent the several thousand dollars to get the
set up. I figure it's too much of a toy to inspire diligence.
    The rhce.linuxmafia.com site has generated no comments,
though I have yet to put in real meat.
    On the bright side, when people post problems, others
post pretty good solutions, at least sometimes.
    I would love the group to develop skills together, me
included (me especially--my selfish point of view). If you
have suggestions, please make them; I'll do the work,
spend the money, promote, cry alone, all the stuff needed
to try to fly a new plan.
    I.e. specifics wanted on how to get tire-kickers to grow.



On Jul 12, 2006, at 12:56 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>
>>     I'm taking your persistence as care and invitation to get
>> into it.
>
> Not a problem.  I just hope you aren't offended.
>
>>     Comparing with the left-handed Esperanto, it seems
>> to me that we similarly don't get significant numbers of
>> job posters.
>
> By my estimate, maybe 10 postings so far.  And some significant number
> have demonstrably been left in doubt on an obvious policy question.
>
>>     I don't mind the condition of uncertainty, not that I like it,
>> I don't care one way or the other. Let them wonder and
>> post or not as they see fit.
>
> Well, there you go.  It's the way you like it.  Doesn't this outcome
> make you a "leader", though?  ;->
>
>>     That the group is, in my scriber's mind, essentially
>> silent means to me (the default group scribe) that there
>> is no policy, not really, and therefore anything written
>> would be in explicit expression of something that doesn't
>> really exist.
>
> I'm sorry, but the way that default works out is:  Job postings are OK.
> That's a policy, just not one made explicit.
>
>>     One man's noise.... Gets to experience: Adrien's
>> experience is well known to you, but not to me, so his
>> rants present a view of the industry (which I care about)
>> that give me insight.
>
> I enjoyed his rant, too -- but, like the posting the prompted it, it 
> has
> nothing to do with the legitimate business of LUGs, which is Linux
> technology, and broadening and perpetuating a collective understanding
> of that technology.
>
>> per your last paragraph:
>
> I should hasten to stress that, in that paragraph, I was not talking
> about _you_.
>
>>     I think your last paragraph is inaccurate in the main.
>
> I hope so -- but have seen all too many old-school user groups (such as
> SFpcUG) where nobody ever really learned anything, the group never
> decided to FAQ the frequent topics so it could move on to more
> interesting things, nobody ever tested let alone discarded a
> preconception, and in general they remained perpetual tirekickers.  On 
> a
> bad day, SF-LUG reminds me of them.
>
> How many SF-LUG subscribers do you figure at this point have even so
> much as booted a live-CD Linux distribution on their boxes?  I estimate
> few, judging from the way they talk -- like devout tirekickers, that 
> is.
>
>> So what are these old prejudices?
>
> See the recent thread on security, and the worship of the Holy
> Impenetrable Firewall That Averts the Need to Think.  Next, I expect to
> hear that everyone needs to run virus-checkers^W^W^W rootkit sniffers.
>
>
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