From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 2 08:41:58 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 08:41:58 -0800 Subject: [conspire] "Lupper Worm" and the patching of bad software References: Message-ID: On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 11:53:46 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: [snip] > As is traditional for McAfee alerts, you have to search hard to find the > point of interest, which is: What vulnerability is exploited? It's > this one sentence; the rest of the advisory is superfluous: > > "Sends HTTP requests to the URLs it generates and attempts to spread by > exploiting an XML-RPC for PHP remote code injection vulnerability, an > AWStats rawlog plugin logfile parameter input validation vulnerability > and the Darryl Burgdorf Webhints remote command execution > vulnerability." [snip] Yet another example of having to search for the point of interest: http://news.com.com/Sun+plugs+serious+holes+in+Java/2100-1002_3-5975496.html From jla1200 at netzero.net Sat Dec 3 20:43:11 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 20:43:11 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Editing Fstab Message-ID: <001001c5f88d$3ba874a0$83bc5545@oemcomputer> I'm trying to get a handle on editing the fstab even though it seems rather "easy". I finally got it to read a new usb stick using dev /sda1, media as the mount point and vfat as the file type. and the rest similar to the other entrys.What would be the dev type of a digital camera? What file type? and other entries noauto and etc.. How do I get a Netzero.deb file to install ? I transfered it from the usb stick okay but then it was a read only file or not a directory and i couldn't install it. I tried as root. dpgk install netzero.deb but it didn't work. Thanks in advance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Sun Dec 4 01:57:50 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 01:57:50 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Editing Fstab References: Message-ID: Not all digital cameras are mountable. The ones that are are typically vfat. The device file used may be somewhat unpredictable. The noauto option means "Do not try to mount on boot." You probably also want the "user" option which allows non-root users to mount. Before you try using "dpkg -i foo.deb" to install the .deb file, it would be a good idea to look at what it will install with "dpkg -c foo.deb" first. If there are no conflicts with anything currently installed, you can try installing the package, but if something goes wrong, you'll want to "dpkg --purge foo" to prevent an inconsistent package database. On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:43:11 -0800, John Andrews wrote: > I'm trying to get a handle on editing the fstab even though it seems rather "easy". I finally got it to read a new usb stick using dev /sda1, media as the mount point and vfat as the file type. and the rest similar to the other entrys.What would be the dev type of a digital camera? What file type? and other entries noauto and etc.. > How do I get a Netzero.deb file to install ? I transfered it from the usb stick okay but then it was a read only file or not a directory and i couldn't install it. I tried as root. dpgk install netzero.deb but it didn't work. Thanks in advance. > > > > > > >
I'm trying to get a handle on editing the fstab > even though it seems rather "easy". I finally got it to read a new usb stick > using dev /sda1, media as the mount point and vfat as the file type. and the > rest similar to the other entrys.What would be the dev type of a digital camera? > What file type? and other entries noauto and etc..
>
    How do I get a Netzero.deb file > to install ? I transfered it from the usb stick okay but then it was a read only > file or not a directory and i couldn't install it. I tried as root. dpgk install > netzero.deb but it didn't work. Thanks in advance.
From hereon1 at fastmail.us Sun Dec 4 10:19:19 2005 From: hereon1 at fastmail.us (Hereon) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 10:19:19 -0800 Subject: [conspire] How automatically replace control (newline) character with space in file & directory names Message-ID: <1133720359.10691.248967891@webmail.messagingengine.com> Can someone tell me a way to accomplish this with a command, commands, shell script, or other program? I have some files & directories with names that contain the newline character, \n , 0A hex. [These get created sometimes as I copy & past text from web pages into the filename as I save a webpage, from firefox, to disk.] I wish to replace that newline with a space character, automatically, without doing it by hand for each file. I have figured out one way to locate the files: In the home directory do: ls -QR * | grep '\\n' Then, individually, I can do a locate on part of the file name to get a full path. ==== $ ls -QR | grep '\\n' > FilesWithNewline.txt $ cat FilesWithNewline.txt . . . [Many file or directory names listed, like the following lines:] "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi.html" "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files" "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files": "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files/B1654090_data": . . . ==== So, what's an easy way to search through the file tree & automatically replace the '\n' with a space character? Thanks. -- Hereon hereon1 at fastmail.us -- http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? From bill at wards.net Sun Dec 4 11:10:58 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:10:58 -0800 Subject: [conspire] How automatically replace control (newline) character with space in file & directory names In-Reply-To: <1133720359.10691.248967891@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1133720359.10691.248967891@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512041110s5dab51cdy9db964446748b262@mail.gmail.com> #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; opendir DOT, "." or die "Can't read directory: #!\n"; foreach my $file (readdir DOT) { my $newfile = $file; $newfile =~ s/\n/ /g; next if $newfile eq $file; # skip files that lack \n if (-e $newfile) { warn "Can't rename $file because $newfile already exists\n"; } else { rename $file, $newfile or die "Error renaming $file: $!\n"; } } On 12/4/05, Hereon wrote: > Can someone tell me a way to accomplish this with a command, commands, > shell script, or other program? > > I have some files & directories with names that contain the newline > character, \n , 0A hex. > > [These get created sometimes as I copy & past text from web pages into > the filename as I save a webpage, from firefox, to disk.] > > I wish to replace that newline with a space character, automatically, > without doing it by hand for each file. > > I have figured out one way to locate the files: > > In the home directory do: > ls -QR * | grep '\\n' > > Then, individually, I can do a locate on part of the file name to get a > full path. > > > > ==== > $ ls -QR | grep '\\n' > FilesWithNewline.txt > > $ cat FilesWithNewline.txt > > . . . [Many file or directory names listed, like the following lines:] > > "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for > $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi.html" > "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for > $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files" > "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 > teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files": > "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 > teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View > article.cgi_files/B1654090_data": > > . . . > > ==== > > So, what's an easy way to search through the file tree & automatically > replace the '\n' with a space character? > Thanks. > -- > Hereon > hereon1 at fastmail.us > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? > > > _______________________________________________ > conspire mailing list > conspire at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire > -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From bill at wards.net Sun Dec 4 11:11:38 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:11:38 -0800 Subject: [conspire] How automatically replace control (newline) character with space in file & directory names In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512041110s5dab51cdy9db964446748b262@mail.gmail.com> References: <1133720359.10691.248967891@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3d2fe1780512041110s5dab51cdy9db964446748b262@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512041111r3de5708cs630aee7d2429cb8f@mail.gmail.com> Oops, I noticed a typo: #! should be $! in the 3rd line. On 12/4/05, Bill Ward wrote: > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > use strict; > opendir DOT, "." or die "Can't read directory: #!\n"; > foreach my $file (readdir DOT) { > my $newfile = $file; > $newfile =~ s/\n/ /g; > next if $newfile eq $file; # skip files that lack \n > if (-e $newfile) { > warn "Can't rename $file because $newfile already exists\n"; > } > else { > rename $file, $newfile or die "Error renaming $file: $!\n"; > } > } > > On 12/4/05, Hereon wrote: > > Can someone tell me a way to accomplish this with a command, commands, > > shell script, or other program? > > > > I have some files & directories with names that contain the newline > > character, \n , 0A hex. > > > > [These get created sometimes as I copy & past text from web pages into > > the filename as I save a webpage, from firefox, to disk.] > > > > I wish to replace that newline with a space character, automatically, > > without doing it by hand for each file. > > > > I have figured out one way to locate the files: > > > > In the home directory do: > > ls -QR * | grep '\\n' > > > > Then, individually, I can do a locate on part of the file name to get a > > full path. > > > > > > > > ==== > > $ ls -QR | grep '\\n' > FilesWithNewline.txt > > > > $ cat FilesWithNewline.txt > > > > . . . [Many file or directory names listed, like the following lines:] > > > > "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for > > $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi.html" > > "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for > > $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files" > > "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 > > teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files": > > "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 > > teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View > > article.cgi_files/B1654090_data": > > > > . . . > > > > ==== > > > > So, what's an easy way to search through the file tree & automatically > > replace the '\n' with a space character? > > Thanks. > > -- > > Hereon > > hereon1 at fastmail.us > > > > -- > > http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > conspire mailing list > > conspire at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire > > > > > > -- > Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ > -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From hereon1 at fastmail.us Sun Dec 4 14:45:24 2005 From: hereon1 at fastmail.us (Hereon) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:45:24 -0800 Subject: [conspire] How automatically replace control (newline) character with space in file & directory names Message-ID: <1133736324.30565.248979690@webmail.messagingengine.com> Can someone tell me a way to accomplish this with a command, commands, shell script, or other program? I have some files & directories with names that contain the newline character, \n , 0A hex. [These get created sometimes as I copy & past text from web pages into the filename as I save a webpage, from firefox, to disk.] I wish to replace that newline with a space character, automatically, without doing it by hand for each file. I have figured out one way to locate the files: In the home directory do: ls -QR * | grep '\\n' Then, individually, I can do a locate on part of the file name to get a full path. ==== $ ls -QR | grep '\\n' > FilesWithNewline.txt $ cat FilesWithNewline.txt . . . [Many file or directory names listed, like the following lines:] "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi.html" "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files" "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files": "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files/B1654090_data": . . . ==== So, what's an easy way to search through the file tree & automatically replace the '\n' with a space character? Also, is there a better email list to ask this question? Perhaps one whose readers are very familiar with shell scripting? Thanks. -- Hereon hereon1 at fastmail.us -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different From hereon1 at fastmail.us Sun Dec 4 14:46:38 2005 From: hereon1 at fastmail.us (Hereon) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 14:46:38 -0800 Subject: [conspire] How automatically replace control (newline) character with space in file & directory names Message-ID: <1133736398.30687.248979690@webmail.messagingengine.com> Can someone tell me a way to accomplish this with a command, commands, shell script, or other program? I have some files & directories with names that contain the newline character, \n , 0A hex. [These get created sometimes as I copy & past text from web pages into the filename as I save a webpage, from firefox, to disk.] I wish to replace that newline with a space character, automatically, without doing it by hand for each file. I have figured out one way to locate the files: In the home directory do: ls -QR * | grep '\\n' Then, individually, I can do a locate on part of the file name to get a full path. ==== $ ls -QR | grep '\\n' > FilesWithNewline.txt $ cat FilesWithNewline.txt . . . [Many file or directory names listed, like the following lines:] "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi.html" "An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files" "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files": "./Engineering/Space/An elevator to space NASA gives idea a lift\n12 teams vying for $100,000 in prizes in Mountain View article.cgi_files/B1654090_data": . . . ==== So, what's an easy way to search through the file tree & automatically replace the '\n' with a space character? Also, is there a better email list to ask this question? Perhaps one whose readers are very familiar with shell scripting? Thanks. -- Hereon hereon1 at fastmail.us -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Send your email first class From hereon1 at fastmail.us Sun Dec 4 15:10:19 2005 From: hereon1 at fastmail.us (Hereon) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 15:10:19 -0800 Subject: [conspire] How automatically replace control (newline) character with space in file & directory names In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512041111r3de5708cs630aee7d2429cb8f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1133720359.10691.248967891@webmail.messagingengine.com> <3d2fe1780512041110s5dab51cdy9db964446748b262@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512041111r3de5708cs630aee7d2429cb8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1133737819.32439.248980982@webmail.messagingengine.com> Bill - Thank you. I'll be studying this later today. To cabal list readers - sorry for the duplicate posts - reasons, no excuses. :( :) On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:11:38 -0800, "Bill Ward" said: > Oops, I noticed a typo: #! should be $! in the 3rd line. > > On 12/4/05, Bill Ward wrote: > > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > > use strict; > > opendir DOT, "." or die "Can't read directory: #!\n"; > > foreach my $file (readdir DOT) { > > my $newfile = $file; > > $newfile =~ s/\n/ /g; > > next if $newfile eq $file; # skip files that lack \n > > if (-e $newfile) { > > warn "Can't rename $file because $newfile already exists\n"; > > } > > else { > > rename $file, $newfile or die "Error renaming $file: $!\n"; > > } > > } -- Hereon hereon1 at fastmail.us -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service From jla1200 at netzero.net Sun Dec 4 16:11:17 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:11:17 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Installing Netzero.deb Message-ID: <000201c5f931$ac22c240$4fbc5545@oemcomputer> I downloaded Linspire/Lindows Netzero setup on a Mac. Then I transfered it to Ubuntu, which is Debian based.Will Netzero.deb install on Ubuntu? I have the file on ///home/jla/netzero.deb. What is the procedure to install it? It opens in Ark if you click it and then you get 3 seperate files, control.tar.gz, data.tar.gz. and debian binary.Should you right click it and move or copy it to somewhere in the root file system?Or can you just open and run it with the shell or as root from a terminal.Thanks for any advice. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Sun Dec 4 18:59:25 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:59:25 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Installing Netzero.deb References: Message-ID: Like I said before, first you should "dpkg -c netzero.deb" to look at what it will install. If what it will install doesn't conflict with anything already installed, go ahead and "sudo dpkg -i netzero.deb" then. If anything goes wrong, you'll want to "sudo dpkg --purge netzero" to prevent an inconsistent package database. On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 16:11:17 -0800, John Andrews wrote: > I downloaded Linspire/Lindows Netzero setup on a Mac. Then I transfered it to Ubuntu, which is Debian based.Will Netzero.deb install on Ubuntu? > I have the file on ///home/jla/netzero.deb. What is the procedure to install it? It opens in Ark if you click it and then you get 3 seperate files, control.tar.gz, data.tar.gz. and debian binary.Should you right click it and move or copy it to somewhere in the root file system?Or can you just open and run it with the shell or as root from a terminal.Thanks for any advice. > > > > > > >
I downloaded Linspire/Lindows Netzero setup on a > Mac. Then I transfered it to Ubuntu, which is Debian based.Will Netzero.deb > install on Ubuntu?
>
    I have the file on > ///home/jla/netzero.deb. What is the procedure to install it? It opens in Ark if > you click it and then you get 3 seperate  files, control.tar.gz, > data.tar.gz. and debian binary.Should you right click it and move or copy it to > somewhere in the root file system?Or can you just open and run it with the shell > or as root from a terminal.Thanks for any advice.
From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Mon Dec 5 14:12:38 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:12:38 -0800 Subject: [conspire] HOWTO get MIDI files to play under Ubuntu on a Mac Message-ID: Discussion Creative Labs endowed the ancestor of all the sound cards around today, the SoundBlaster, with abilities that could be compared to the multimedia capabilities of the non-Intel platforms of the day. These included a "wave table" function, which allowed a number of "voices" to be multiplexed together, each with its own waveform played at any pitch, with minimal tax on the CPU (except of course, compared to the Amiga). Not long before, the MIDI standard came about, and as part of it, a standard file format for representing sheet music in a form meant to be interpreted by machines. Early MIDI file-playing software used whatever limited wave-table resources were available, but as sound-card designs matured, the wave-table functionality matured along with it, to a point, before it began to be largely neglected by sound-card designers. Apple was ahead of the Intel platforms in early wave-table offerings, and they were likewise ahead in beginning to neglect them. Their wave-table APIs became quite unusable so quickly that they were rather hastily superseded in their new API for managing time-based data, named QuickTime to recall their once-revolutionary graphics engine, QuickDraw. One application of time-based data was the ability to play movies, but QuickTime held the promise of a lot more. Soon, a set of QuickTime Musical Instruments were added that gave MIDI files the diversity in tone color of a full band or orchestra without having to obtain any extra software. Later, the worldwide web came about, and Netscape Navigator version 2 introduced the idea (and the API) of browser plugins. Among the first such plugins were ones that would play sound files and ones that would play MIDI files. On DOS and Windows, the MIDI files would be played using the SoundBlaster wave-table APIs, and on Macs they would be played using QuickTime. Linux sees the wave-table portion of a sound card as a "MIDI device" to which it can send MIDI commands from a MIDI file. The Linux drivers for the Mac "sound card" do not provide any such device for the above reasons. How then, can MIDI files be played on such hardware under Linux without QuickTime? The answer is to do what QuickTime does: Translate the music data into sound data using instrument data. The Ubuntu package that does this is installed like so: sudo apt-get install timidity However, that package does not provide any instrument data, called "patches." The ALSA project maintains a set of patches that they have collected under a non-restrictive license that is mostly GPLv2, with an extra clause that allows creating proprietary works using said patches. The collection is woefully incomplete, and if used in the stock configuration, you'll be lucky to hear half the tracks in an average MIDI file. It comes with a recommendation on how to substitute some of the patches that are there for many of the patches that aren't. I tried that approach as well, and the results were still less than satisfactory. There were still many messages about instruments that would not be heard, and half the ones that were sounded really off in their tone color. However, if you are in a commercial setting, this may save you a few licensing headaches down the road. If you choose to go down this path, you can get started with: sudo apt-get install freepats Then you would edit /etc/timidity/freepats.cfg to fill in the blanks, which you would base on the contents of the following file: /usr/share/doc/freepats/examples/crude.cfg.gz My recommendation is to forego freepats altogether. The guy who put freepats together originally put together a collection of patches from all over the online world in the '90s. However, he did not keep track of which patch he got from where, much less what licensing terms each originator imposed. At least a couple of them were for sure not for commercial redistribution. For this reason, he abandoned that collection and started freepats. Non-Debian-based distros, as a rule, seem to provide that collection anyway. Go to a Gentoo mirror and download the file eawpats12_full.tar.gz to your desktop. Then type: cd /opt sudo tar xfz ~/Desktop/eawpats12_full.tar.gz sudo gedit eawpats/linuxconfig/timidity.cfg Change the line: dir /home/user/eawpats/ to: dir /opt/eawpats/ and save changes. Next type: sudo gedit /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg Comment out the last line that says "source" and after it add: source /opt/eawpats/linuxconfig/timidity.cfg With this setup, I found a MIDI file that still gave three messages about instruments that would not be heard. I found that adding the following lines to the end gave more or less satisfactory results: drumset 0 11 tamborin 123 tamborin 126 tamborin You may have noticed the top part of the file instructs you to uncomment a bunch of stuff on slower CPUs. Indeed leaving them all commented is too much for a 600MHz G3 iBook. But uncommenting them all is overkill. I found the following to be a nice compromise. Note that the line about anti-aliasing has been corrected from the suggested line, which would make timidity error out and not do anything. opt EFresamp=d #disable resampling opt EFvlpf=d #disable VLPF opt EFreverb=d #disable reverb #opt EFchorus=d #disable chorus opt EFdelay=d #disable delay opt --no-anti-alias #disable sample anti-aliasing #opt EWPVSETOZ #disable all Midi Controls #opt p32a #default to 32 voices with auto reduction #opt s32kHz #default sample frequency to 32kHz #opt fast-decay #fast decay notes After you save changes, you will be ready to play MIDI files from Firefox, or any other method you choose to obtain them. Just tell Firefox to open them with timidity. If you're feeling adventurous, you can install and reconfigure mozplugger to only handle MIDI files, and pass them to timidity, allowing Firefox to play MIDI files specified with the tag. There also exists an xmms plugin for timidity, but I rebuilt its package from source, and only got it to play noise on PowerPC. This HOWTO would not have been possible without the security hole recently found in Java. This is because someone came on IRC to ask whether the Penguin Liberation Front would package Update 6, and asked whether he/she had followed correct make-jpkg procedure as he/she described at: http://members.shaw.ca/Limulus/ubuntu.html From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 5 20:48:16 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 20:48:16 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Editing Fstab In-Reply-To: <001001c5f88d$3ba874a0$83bc5545@oemcomputer> References: <001001c5f88d$3ba874a0$83bc5545@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20051206044816.GD20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Andrews (jla1200 at netzero.net): > I'm trying to get a handle on editing the fstab even though it seems > rather "easy". I finally got it to read a new usb stick using dev > /sda1, media as the mount point and vfat as the file type. and the > rest similar to the other entrys.What would be the dev type of a > digital camera? What file type? and other entries noauto, etc. Now, _there's_ an interesting question. I hope you don't mind if I peel it rather like an onion -- sort of in reverse, really, starting with the simple core and gradually pasting some of the peel back onto it -- as that seems both the most fruitful and the laziest way to approach it. The first part of that is how to mount USB block-device (mass storage) media such as USB flash drives -- which turns out to generalise nicely to other mass storage devices reached over USB, such as various types of non-volatile media inside digital cameras. _Linux Journal_ was kind enough to publish my modest little article on using USB flash drives on Linux: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6867 You may want to read the full article for details, but, after discussing the necessary kernel modules and how to ensure that they're loaded, the piece mentions an /etc/fstab entry you want to add (if it's not already there) to enable /proc's tracking of USB devices: none /proc/bus/usb usbdevfs defaults 0 0 (Do "mount -a" at the root-user prompt to activate that mount, and simultaneously check your syntax. ;-> ) More than likely, you won't need to make that edit -- you'll probably already have that /etc/fstab line and the consequent /proc/bus/usb tree within /proc. Last, my article went on to describe the most straight-forward, simple-minded way to -- at last -- mount the actual flash drive, which will be addressable either as /dev/sdX (X=a,b,c, etc.) or as /dev/sdXN (N=1,2,3, etc.), depending on whether the flash drive emulates a hard disk or a floppy disk: Any random flash drive might be one or the other, without particular rhyme or reason. Why an /dev/sd?? device, you might wonder. Well, this is kernel programmers practicing what Larry Wall calls one of the cardinal virtues of programmers: laziness. How to address SCSI mass-storage (and other) devices is already a very well-solved problem, so, shimming the SCSI layer into USB-device addressing made the problem easier. The fact that these aren't _really_ SCSI devices is true but beside the point: It was the easiest, quickest, and most-reliable way to solve the problem. I described how to solve the USB-flash-drive problem despite the fact that you'd already solved it, because it's the gateway to solving other, similar problems, such as addressing USB-connected digital cameras operating in mass-storage mode, or other memory-technology devices (MTDs). You'll notice my qualifier in the above: "operating in mass-storage mode". Let me add another onion layer, and also introduce you to one of my link-farm pages, the one for Linux hardware-support Web sites. Start at my knowledgebase, http://linuxmafia.com/kb/ , and pick the Hardware category, thereby going to http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Hardware/ . Notice the entry for "Help Resources", described as "List of info. resources for all hardware categories...." Picking _that_ link, you (finally) arrive at my hardware-support link farm page: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/help-resources.html You'll probably find a number of relevant entries, but the one I want to call your attention to immediately is "Digital cameras (see also USB, Firewire, etc.): http://www.teaser.fr/~hfiguiere/linux/digicam.html". Go there, please. You will notice that the page clarifies that USB-connectable digital cameras (not including some with crazy proprietary protocols) connect using either a mass-storage, random access "USB Mass Storage" mode or a streaming, serial-port-like "PTP" = Picture Transfer Protocol (aka Still Image Device) mode. There will usually be tiny switch on the camera chassis, to select which addressing mode to use. The page goes into some detail on Linux ramifications, including the use of gPhoto2 as a nearly universal Linux software solution, since it understands how to do PTP and in general does all the right things. Some digital cameras (I'm talking still-photo cameras, for simplicity's sake) will sport Firewire aka IEEE-1394 ports instead of USB -- or in addition to USB. Frankly, the situation's pretty much exactly the same, except using slightly different Linux drivers: You load a couple of kernel drivers that shim onto SCSI mass storage support, et voilo: You have storage on your camera addressable as /dev/sdX or /dev/sdXN. My link farm has Firewire information linked as "http://www.linux1394.org/", which please see if that applies to your situation. Filesystem type? Pretty much inevitably vfat. VFAT is not very good, but it's a lingua franca, you see. You can usually in theory reformat to use something else, but probably shouldn't if only because it limits whom you can hand your camera's flash media to (comprehensibly, anyway). What my article did _not_ cover is Linux's Hotplug subsystem, which you can and should read about at http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/ , and which is another outer layer of that onion. The point of Hotplug is to move past my article's primordial-Unixey approach of manually mounting and umounting devices, instead taking care automaticdally of all tasks that would ordinarily have to be handled manually, when plugging and unplugging removable devices. You ask about "noauto": That mount option (in /etc/fstab) specifies that the device described on that /etc/fstab line is _not_ to be automatically mounted at boot time, as part of the startup process. You might well, for example, include that option for CD-ROM/CD-R[W], DVD, floppy, and similar devices. Along those same lines, please note my article's suggestion about the "noatime" option. > How do I get a Netzero.deb file to install ? I transfered it from > the usb stick okay but then it was a read only file or not a > directory and i couldn't install it. I tried as root. dpgk install > netzero.deb but it didn't work. Googling on the name "netzero.deb" suggests that you are probably talking about Netzero's proprietary dialer software, done up as a binary package for LinspireOS/LindowsOS. Linspire uses the ".deb" package format characteristic of Debian (and also innumerable other Debian-derived distributions). You did not identify your distribution: That may be an absolutely crucial factor -- but I cannot address that, because you didn't specify. Making the optimal assumption, let's assume that you're running either LinspireOS or some other Debian-compatible Linux distribution that is reasonably close in version numbers to the LinspireOS release for which your netzero.deb package is intended. In that case, you become the root user, "cd" to wherever the package file is sitting, and then install it using "dpkg -i", like this: $ su - # cd /tmp # dpkg -i netzero.deb This assumes, of course, that you've put netzero.deb into /tmp. Presumably, you already did try something roughly like that, and encountered some problem or other -- but your description was unfortunately sufficiently inexact that it's difficult to understand what problem you encountered. Maybe, if you don't mind, you can try again and note down _exactly_ what happened. Ideally, you would copy-and-paste the commands you type and precisely what the return text is from your command session, or use the "script" utility to log your session to disk -- and post relevant sections here so we can see exactly what you're running into. Not intending to be critical, but where you say "dpkg install netzero.deb" is a case in point: "install" is not a valid parameter for the "dpkg" command. "-i" or "--install" are valid options, however -- and might very well have been what you typed on the affected systems, and meant to type here -- but we cannot tell from what you said. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Mon Dec 5 20:55:42 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:55:42 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Editing Fstab References: <001001c5f88d$3ba874a0$83bc5545@oemcomputer> Message-ID: On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 20:48:16 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: [snip] > You did not identify your distribution: That may be an absolutely > crucial factor -- but I cannot address that, because you didn't specify. [snip] His previous message clearly indicated the distro as Ubuntu. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 6 09:47:04 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 09:47:04 -0800 Subject: [conspire] (forw) Re: New to Bay Area Message-ID: <20051206174704.GJ3859@linuxmafia.com> ----- Forwarded message from Jeff Frasca ----- Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:11:20 -0800 From: Jeff Frasca To: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: New to Bay Area Hello, My Fianc?e and I just moved down here to the Bay Area, and found your group. We'd like to come to the meeting next Saturday. I love my Slackware, and Laura runs Debian. We moved down here so she could take a job in Emeryville--she's a librarian and was hired by a library software firm. I followed her and have been playing house husband (I recently graduated with a BS in physics). Mostly, we were wondering what we should bring for the potluck dinner (I saw mention of "enjoy good potluck dinner" in the FAQ)? Speaking of the FAQ, I'd like to claim my prize for reading the whole thing. See you on Saturday, Jeff -- ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 22:48:42 -0800 To: Jeff Frasca Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: New to Bay Area Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com From: Rick Moen Quoting Jeff Frasca (phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com): > Hello, Greetings, Jeff. > My Fianc?e and I just moved down here to the Bay Area, and found > your group. We'd like to come to the meeting next Saturday. Good. We'll be delighted to see you. Saturday's event may not show off CABAL at its best: I'll have arrived back late the prior evening from the LISA Conference in San Diego, from which I'm writing you at the moment. Plus, there's a holiday dinner from 1 pm to 3:45 in Los Altos that I'll be coming back from, that Saturday -- and my wife will be running off to an evening event elsewhere. So, we might be a bit disorganised, at least as to my personal end of things. > Mostly, we were wondering what we should bring for the potluck > dinner (I saw mention of "enjoy good potluck dinner" in the FAQ)? Hmm. I normally cook some sort of beef or pork roast, and other people's contributions are all over the map. Ross Bernheim often does a nice casserole with fake crabmeat -- quite delicious -- and often brings homemade sorbets. If there's demand, I will generally fire up the back-porch BBQ (cheap Weber-style, w/charcoal), so people can indulge their variant of the suburban barbecue ritual. And I will usually make fresh garlic bread. However, the most important thing to note is that nobody is _expected_ to bring anything to eat at all, but there's always plenty for everyone anyway. It's a pleasant form of working anarchy, and things just tend to work out. If you wanted to bring something that's usually lacking, a salad or fruit salad would definitely be among those. Or bring your favourite bottle of wine, or whatever you like to drink. Or nothing. Please don't sweat the matter: Just come, and be welcome. > Speaking of the FAQ, I'd like to claim my prize for reading the > whole thing. Hah, you're the -first- to mention that, over about eight years. Now, I really have to do a pot roast! -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor ----- End forwarded message ----- From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 6 10:38:11 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:38:11 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Ubuntu/Digital Camera In-Reply-To: <000d01c5f37f$392a5940$ccbc5545@oemcomputer> References: <000d01c5f37f$392a5940$ccbc5545@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20051206183811.GF20139@linuxmafia.com> Hi, John. I'm just looking over your older post, in the wake of Daniel clarifying that you are running [K]Ubuntu. Quoting John Andrews (jla1200 at netzero.net): > I have Ubuntu/Kubuntu installed on my computer. For the first 2 months > the digital camera stuff worked fine. Now it won't give me access to > use it. Whenever someone says "[Foo] used to work, and then it stopped working", logically, my very first question is "What changed?" If you can figure that out, then often the nature of the problem (and sometimes also the solution) becomes obvious. Daniel is almost certainly right that, by far, the easiest way to resolve this problem is for you to bring your computer, and USB cable, and digital camera, to the next CABAL event -- or, equivalently, to one of SVLUG's monthly installfest/workship events in Mountain View. Accordingly, what follows probably won't help much with your actual problem, but is more a general mini-essay on the art of problem-solving. (I hope you won't mind.) It's a lot easier to figure out what's going on when we can see for ourselves. Not intending to be in any way critical of you personally, but a lot of users' problem reports, especially those of desktop users, start getting frustratingly vague, exactly at the point where we'd want to dig in in order to help you out. You're doing the best you can with the information the desktop applications are giving you, but there's very little you have on hand to convey to us, and of necessity you've been applying your _interpretation_ to what you're seeing, which unfortunately then becomes a barrier between us helpers and the raw data. For example, you say "used the control center" (by which I assume you mean some version or other of the KDE "Control Panel" application, kcontrol), and say "It picked up [your camera] fine", but we really have no way of knowing specifically what you mean when you say that -- and it's difficult with a graphical application like that to show us. This is one reason why, for diagnostic purposes, it's better to use simple command-line tools with known characteristics, as those (1) are universally available, (2) predictable in their behaviour, (3) easy to copy-and-paste the command line the user specified to them and their returned output, and (4) simple in the sense of not relying on other requirements being met before they will function properly. (As a further explanation on that "universally available" bit, you might well be assuming that everyone else on Linux has access to the software you've been using. This is not the case. Not everyone by a long stretch likes KDE or keeps it around, and the same for gPhoto2. But every modern Linux system has, say, lsusb and ps.) I hope you won't feel picked on, but the phrase "It won't give me access to it" doesn't really tell us a darned thing about what specific software you were attempting to use, what specifically you did with it, and what it did in response. My point is not to complain (hardly!), but rather to point out that we're prevented from helping you by lack of useful description. Nobody's blaming you, but it's frustrating to not be able to assist. > I,ve used the control center to add my camera via usb which it > picked up fine . As you can probably imagine, this sentence has pretty much the same problem: It doesn't really specify what you did (and what the software did, and what software was involved) in detail, and it gives us only your interpretation of what happened, instead of the raw data that we would actually need. > Then when I try to test the camera or upload pictures it says it can't > find the camera in the tree. Also the gphoto2 can't read the cameras > files either.How do I get permissions back or what ever?The usb works > normal for the printer. Thank you for mentioning the bit about the printer: That's really useful diagnostic information, as it eliminates a large number of otherwise possible problem causes. For starters, you should (1) make sure you are connecting your camera directly to the computer's USB port, i.e., _not_ via a USB hub (for diagnostic purposes -- you might be able to reintroduce the hub, if any, later), and (2) make sure the camera's mode switch is set to USB mass storage mode rather than PTP image-transfer mode. Double-check the USB physical connection at each end; make sure you are using a known-good USB cable (e.g., the one that you know works with your printer). By the way, please be careful about overspecifying the problem: Computer nerds have a tendency to focus on whatever you claim that the problem is, which can lead to considerable wasted time if you have misdefined the problem. For example, you spoke about needing to "get the permissions back". It probably won't happen this time, but I can easily imagine typical Linux nerds working with you to find and fix problems with Linux file permissions (e.g., on device files), on the basis of your describing that as being the problem -- even though you really had no reason to believe that that _is_ the problem, and were merely guessing. So, please be really careful about accidentally misdefining the problem. Again, this is one of the reasons why we need to start with _raw data_ rather than your interpretations. I have a metaphorical saying about this: "Techies are from Missouri." That is, their byword is "Show me." They would want you, instead of just trying to describe what happened from memory, to attempt to use your camera with Kubuntu again, and this time take down detailed and accurate notes about exactly what you did and what various pieces of hardware and software did, in proper chronological order. They might want you to post the exact output of "lsmod" and "lsusb", and other things. (I personally am not very familiar with digital cameras, and have never used gPhoto2, and so cannot be more specific.) > The Kscd stopped working again. We edited the group file to add me > to media:/hdd. Now it says I don't have permissions to use it. 1. We have no way of knowing what you mean by "the group file". You might mean "/etc/group", except that "media:/hdd" would not make sense as syntax for a line in that file. 2. "KsCD" appears, from my googling, to be a KDE-oriented player for audio CDs. But we have no way of knowing what you mean by "stopped working": That could mean dozens of things. (Thus, like the word "crashed", it is not helpful in diagnostic situations.) Also, you didn't explain the bit about "again": What happened last time? 3. You say "It says", but we have no idea what "it" is in this context. I hope the above is of _general_ use to you, in communicating with the technical community. However, as to the specific technical problems you're encountering, again, you'll probably find it less frustrating to just bring everything to a suitable in-person event, rather than further pursue diagnosis remotely via e-mail. From mystagor at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 6 20:02:31 2005 From: mystagor at sbcglobal.net (Adam Cozzette) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:02:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [conspire] Looking for a Ride to CABAL Meetings Message-ID: <20051207040231.44278.qmail@web81705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello, This is my first post here, so let me introduce myself briefly. My name's Adam and I first went to a CABAL meeting in September earlier this year, where I had Linux installed on my computer. I didn't really do very much with Linux for a while, but lately I've been getting back into it, so I would like to start regularly attending the meetings again. The only thing is I'm not old enough to drive, and I don't think my parents are willing to take me all the way to Menlo Park twice a month, so I was wondering if any of you from or near San Jose would be willing to give me a ride. I would be more than willing to pitch in 10 bucks or more toward paying for gas. (By the way, I realize that this is a bit short notice for the next meeting.) So, if you'd like the specifics of where I live, my house is at 4196 Haven Court, San Jose. (If you'd like to see where it is on a map, you could look on Mapquest.com which is pretty helpful.) Well, if you're interested, please send me an e-mail and tell me what time you intend to leave and when you want to get back. Thank you in advance, Adam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 12:36:05 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:36:05 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box Message-ID: <20051208203605.GD3859@linuxmafia.com> If anyone _happens_ to have a CD set of Fedora Core 3 for i386, please do speak up. Thanks. ----- Forwarded message from wood eddie ----- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:12:22 -0800 (PST) From: wood eddie To: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Is this still on this Sat Dec 10 ? Fedora Core 4 installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. I have Fedora Core 3 CD(rather its a multiple distribution DVD with FC3, Ubuntu 4.1) dated Jan 2005. Previous FC1 install not recognize built in network adapter. Tried boot using this multi-distribution DVD see if can select install FC3 but it says CD-ROM media not bootable. I am a beginner-mid Linux user, having installed FC1 and 4 only once. Can I bring machine this Sat to Deidre's place at 4pm to try ? What do I need to bring, besides machine and monitor ? The last FC1 and 4 install was done last month at SVLUG in Mt. View. Thx, Eddie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:34:14 -0800 To: wood eddie Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com From: Rick Moen Quoting wood eddie (ewood111 at yahoo.com): > Is this still on this Sat Dec 10 ? Yes. 4pm to midnight-ish. > Fedora Core 4 installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. > Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. I have Fedora Core 3 > CD(rather its a multiple distribution DVD with FC3, Ubuntu 4.1) dated > Jan 2005. Previous FC1 install not recognize built in network > adapter. Tried boot using this multi-distribution DVD see if can > select install FC3 but it says CD-ROM media not bootable. Hmm. I don't currently have an FC3 media set, having discarded those when FC4 came out. I'll see if it's possible to download the ISOs (IA32 version, since your box is a Celeron) prior to the event, but cannot promise. > I am a beginner-mid Linux user, having installed FC1 and 4 only once. > Can I bring machine this Sat to Deirdre's place at 4pm to try ? Of course. > What do I need to bring, besides machine and monitor ? It's best to bring system unit, monitor, keyboard, and pointing device. Don't worry if you accidentally leave power cables or other incidentals at home, since we have lots of spares. If it's _really_ inconvenient to bring your monitor (and I'm sympathetic), then you can use one of our three 17" ones -- but you're really best off setting up X11 for and on your own monitor, so as to be double-sure things will work fine when you go home. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor ----- End forwarded message ----- From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Thu Dec 8 12:54:10 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:54:10 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box References: Message-ID: There's probably no point in burning yet another set of FC3. I bet it would be possible to somehow coax the multi-distro DVD he has to install it with a bootstrap floppy of some kind. Even more likely, whatever issue caused him to "need Fedora Core 3 instead" is more easily solvable under another distro -- maybe even FC4. If after more e-mails, it is determined that he absolutely must have FC3, I'll bug Christian Einfeldt about lending out the K12LTSP 4.2.1 disc set in his possession, which defaults to installing not the K12LTSP distro, but a stock FC3. On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:36:05 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > If anyone _happens_ to have a CD set of Fedora Core 3 for i386, > please do speak up. Thanks. > > ----- Forwarded message from wood eddie ----- > > Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:12:22 -0800 (PST) > From: wood eddie > To: installers at linuxmafia.com > Subject: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) > > Is this still on this Sat Dec 10 ? Fedora Core 4 > installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. > Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. I have > Fedora Core 3 CD(rather its a multiple distribution > DVD with FC3, Ubuntu 4.1) dated Jan 2005. Previous > FC1 install not recognize built in network adapter. > Tried boot using this multi-distribution DVD see if > can select install FC3 but it says CD-ROM media not > bootable. I am a beginner-mid Linux user, having > installed FC1 and 4 only once. Can I bring machine > this Sat to Deidre's place at 4pm to try ? What do I > need to bring, besides machine and monitor ? The last > FC1 and 4 install was done last month at SVLUG in Mt. > View. Thx, Eddie > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- > > Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:34:14 -0800 > To: wood eddie > Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) > Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com > From: Rick Moen > > Quoting wood eddie (ewood111 at yahoo.com): > >> Is this still on this Sat Dec 10 ? > > Yes. 4pm to midnight-ish. > >> Fedora Core 4 installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. >> Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. I have Fedora Core 3 >> CD(rather its a multiple distribution DVD with FC3, Ubuntu 4.1) dated >> Jan 2005. Previous FC1 install not recognize built in network >> adapter. Tried boot using this multi-distribution DVD see if can >> select install FC3 but it says CD-ROM media not bootable. > > Hmm. I don't currently have an FC3 media set, having discarded those > when FC4 came out. I'll see if it's possible to download the ISOs (IA32 > version, since your box is a Celeron) prior to the event, but cannot > promise. > >> I am a beginner-mid Linux user, having installed FC1 and 4 only once. >> Can I bring machine this Sat to Deirdre's place at 4pm to try ? > > Of course. > >> What do I need to bring, besides machine and monitor ? > > It's best to bring system unit, monitor, keyboard, and pointing device. > Don't worry if you accidentally leave power cables or other incidentals > at home, since we have lots of spares. If it's _really_ inconvenient to > bring your monitor (and I'm sympathetic), then you can use one of our > three 17" ones -- but you're really best off setting up X11 for and on > your own monitor, so as to be double-sure things will work fine when you > go home. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 13:00:16 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:00:16 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051208210016.GZ20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > There's probably no point in burning yet another set of FC3. I bet it > would be possible to somehow coax the multi-distro DVD he has to install > it with a bootstrap floppy of some kind. Even more likely, whatever issue > caused him to "need Fedora Core 3 instead" is more easily solvable under > another distro -- maybe even FC4. > > If after more e-mails, it is determined that he absolutely must have FC3, > I'll bug Christian Einfeldt about lending out the K12LTSP 4.2.1 disc set > in his possession, which defaults to installing not the K12LTSP distro, > but a stock FC3. I imagine and hope you're right. Ideally, I'd have written back and gently inquired as to whether he isn't overdefining the problem, i.e., inquire as to _why_ he feels he cannot solve his problem with anything but FC3 (which, of course, does not on first glance stand to reason). I get tired of getting jumped on when I do that (you know, all that "Moen is mean to newbies" crap, invariably floated by some _experienced_ Linux user whose errors I've dared to correct at some point in the past), figured that things would work themselves out, and so did the lazy thing and just answered the question exactly as posed. From dmarti at zgp.org Thu Dec 8 17:27:47 2005 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:27:47 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box In-Reply-To: <20051208210016.GZ20139@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051208210016.GZ20139@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051209012747.GA31380@zgp.org> begin Rick Moen quotation of Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 01:00:16PM -0800: > Ideally, I'd have written back and gently inquired as to whether he > isn't overdefining the problem, i.e., inquire as to _why_ he feels he > cannot solve his problem with anything but FC3 (which, of course, does > not on first glance stand to reason). Just looking at: http://fedora.redhat.com/About/FAQ.html "Updates will be available for two to three months after the release of the subsequent version; that is, updates for Fedora Core 1 will be provided for two to three months after the release of Fedora Core 2, and so forth." Fedora Core 4 was released in June, so that means it would probably be a good idea not to count on getting updates for 3 for much longer. Yes, there is the Fedora Legacy Project, but it has had gaps in updates. http://lwn.net/Articles/119892/ > I get tired of getting jumped on when I do that (you know, all that > "Moen is mean to newbies" crap, invariably floated by some _experienced_ > Linux user whose errors I've dared to correct at some point in the past), > figured that things would work themselves out, and so did the lazy thing > and just answered the question exactly as posed. On any good technical mailing list, both the "why you shouldn't do that" answer and the "here's how to do that anyway" answer are on topic. -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ dmarti at zgp.org From wallachd at earthlink.net Thu Dec 8 17:40:57 2005 From: wallachd at earthlink.net (Darlene Wallach) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:40:57 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box In-Reply-To: <20051208203605.GD3859@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051208203605.GD3859@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4398E0A9.7080306@earthlink.net> Rick Moen wrote: > If anyone _happens_ to have a CD set of Fedora Core 3 for i386, > please do speak up. Thanks. > > ----- Forwarded message from wood eddie ----- > > Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:12:22 -0800 (PST) > From: wood eddie > To: installers at linuxmafia.com > Subject: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) > > Is this still on this Sat Dec 10 ? Fedora Core 4 > installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. > Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. I have > Fedora Core 3 CD(rather its a multiple distribution > DVD with FC3, Ubuntu 4.1) dated Jan 2005. Previous > FC1 install not recognize built in network adapter. > Tried boot using this multi-distribution DVD see if > can select install FC3 but it says CD-ROM media not > bootable. I am a beginner-mid Linux user, having > installed FC1 and 4 only once. Can I bring machine > this Sat to Deidre's place at 4pm to try ? What do I > need to bring, besides machine and monitor ? The last > FC1 and 4 install was done last month at SVLUG in Mt. > View. Thx, Eddie > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- > > Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:34:14 -0800 > To: wood eddie > Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) > Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com > From: Rick Moen > > Quoting wood eddie (ewood111 at yahoo.com): > > >>Is this still on this Sat Dec 10 ? > > > Yes. 4pm to midnight-ish. > > >>Fedora Core 4 installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. >>Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. I have Fedora Core 3 >>CD(rather its a multiple distribution DVD with FC3, Ubuntu 4.1) dated >>Jan 2005. Previous FC1 install not recognize built in network >>adapter. Tried boot using this multi-distribution DVD see if can >>select install FC3 but it says CD-ROM media not bootable. > > > Hmm. I don't currently have an FC3 media set, having discarded those > when FC4 came out. I'll see if it's possible to download the ISOs (IA32 > version, since your box is a Celeron) prior to the event, but cannot > promise. > > >>I am a beginner-mid Linux user, having installed FC1 and 4 only once. >>Can I bring machine this Sat to Deirdre's place at 4pm to try ? > > > Of course. > > >>What do I need to bring, besides machine and monitor ? > > > It's best to bring system unit, monitor, keyboard, and pointing device. > Don't worry if you accidentally leave power cables or other incidentals > at home, since we have lots of spares. If it's _really_ inconvenient to > bring your monitor (and I'm sympathetic), then you can use one of our > three 17" ones -- but you're really best off setting up X11 for and on > your own monitor, so as to be double-sure things will work fine when you > go home. > I have a set of FC3 cds that Rick burned for me. Is someone willing to pick them up from me and return them to me? I live in San Jose close to where 280 and 17/880 meet. Darlene -- World Centric Fair Trade & Eco Store http://www.worldcentric.org/store/ We have created and live in a world of gross social and economic inequalities[1] and are at the same time severely impacting[2] the natural eco-systems and regenerating bio-capacity of the planet. Our every action has an impact on the well-being of our planet and our everyday decisions[3] can help create a better world for all. In keeping with this fact and our vision, the World Centric Fair Trade/Eco Online Store provides everyday consumption choices, which can help minimize social & economic inequalities, reduce the impact of our consumption on the environment and help create a better and sustainable world. [1] http://www.worldcentric.org/stateworld/socialjustice.htm [2] http://www.worldcentric.org/stateworld/environment.htm [3] http://www.worldcentric.org/sustain/index.htm From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 17:52:03 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:52:03 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box In-Reply-To: <4398E0A9.7080306@earthlink.net> References: <20051208203605.GD3859@linuxmafia.com> <4398E0A9.7080306@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20051209015202.GB20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Darlene Wallach (wallachd at earthlink.net): > I have a set of FC3 cds that Rick burned for me. Is someone willing to > pick them up from me and return them to me? I live in San Jose close > to where 280 and 17/880 meet. Darlene, my thanks. However, I'm guessing that's going to turn out to be not needed. I was actually just about to find time to write back to the guy and discuss those matters with him, but I'm betting that we'll be able to help him without a literal FC3 disc set. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 18:15:55 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:15:55 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box Message-ID: <20051209021555.GL3859@linuxmafia.com> ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:10:13 -0800 To: ewood111 at yahoo.com Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com From: Rick Moen Eddie, you wrote: > Fedora Core 4 installed fine on Dell Optiplex GX-520 desktop system. > Just found out need Fedora Core 3 instead. My apologies for being a bit rushed in writing back to you earlier, but I've been at a technical conference, and things have been a bit hectic. It occurs to me that we might be able to assist you more easily if we had some clearer idea of what underlying issue you're addressing. Is there some special software package, or cranky hardware component, that is said to require either (1) specifically FC3, or (2) specifically FC but only versions prior to FC4, or (3) something else entirely? Depending on the problem you're trying to address, it might be a great deal better in the long term for you if we find a way to make your existing FC4 setup do whatever job you have in mind. For one thing, as a friend reminded me when he heard details of your case, FC3 has already become an "unsupported" release, meaning that current updates are no longer available in any reliable fashion (and no longer available _at all_ from the Fedora Project itself), which in turn makes it (increasingly) dangerous to run from the standpoint of system security. Of necessity, older distribution releases also have, in general, thinnier and buggier support for recent hardware than newer replacements. You found that out for yourself, in fact: > Previous FC1 install not recognize built in network adapter. And last, you already have FC4 installed, so making it work for you _might_ be by far the easiest course of action. So, anyway, checking my notes, I believe we should be able to (if necessary) find ways to bang onto your system _any_ of the FC releases if you need one in particular --- but I'd actually tend to wager that we can find a better solution for you once you've briefed us a bit better on the nature of the problem. By the way, I hope you don't mind my forwarding our conversation to CABAL's small public mailing list, "conspire": You wrote to our semi-public "installers" mail alias anyway, rather than to me personally, and a lot of the best suggestions and assistance for attendees _always_ comes from the "conspire" regulars. I merely sit here looking good, and they do all the work. ;-> ----- End forwarded message ----- From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 18:17:42 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:17:42 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Collection of music software for Linux Message-ID: <20051209021742.GN3859@linuxmafia.com> ----- Forwarded message from "Robert S. Johnstone" ----- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:40:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Robert S. Johnstone" To: installers at linuxmafia.com Cc: jubilada at sbcglobal.com Subject: RSVP CABAL Sat 10 Dec Dear Mafiosi, I would like to come to your meeting/installfest Sat 10 Dec 4pm ..., hopefully to meet and talk with someone experienced in Linux sound software and hardware. I won't bring any hardware. I have been browsing the website of Stanford's Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics (CCRMA). This site, managed by Fernando Lopez-Lezcano, is very well organized, but the extent of its software offerings is far beyond overwhelming. From the page: * What is Planet CCRMA at Home? I quote: "Planet CCRMA at Home is a collection of software packages that you can add to a computer running RedHat 9 or Fedora Core 1, 2 or 3 to transform it into an audio/video oriented workstation. ... You will only be able to install Planet CCRMA on top of the supported versions of RedHat or Fedora Core. ..." Installing on other Linux distributions is not supported. In the pages: * A roadmap for Planet CCRMA * Sound and Music Applications there as lists of dozens of available software packages. The years of labor they must represent is staggering. For purposes of discussion, I am interested in programs such as snd sound editor Csound software synthesizer Timidity software sampler ZynAddSubFX software synthesizer but claim no particular expertise in such technology. I will show up about 4PM Sat 10 Dec unless you tell me otherwise. Thanks, Bob Johnstone 650/326-0424 rsjohnst at idiom.com PS. A long time ago, circa 1962, I took trumpet lessons with the late Charles Bubb, who lived very close to your address on Sharon Rd. ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:14:35 -0800 To: "Robert S. Johnstone" Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com, jubilada at sbcglobal.com Subject: Re: RSVP CABAL Sat 10 Dec Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com From: Rick Moen Quoting Robert S. Johnstone (rsjohnst at idiom.com): > Dear Mafiosi, > > I would like to come to your meeting/installfest Sat 10 Dec 4pm ..., > hopefully to meet and talk with someone experienced in Linux sound > software and hardware. I won't bring any hardware. Robert, we'll be delighted to have you. I hope the weather cooperates; the odds are the meeting will be partially in the (heatable, spacious) garage, since the back patio is starting to get a bit chilly, this time of year. I've certainly heard of CCRMA, having encountered that Web site while researching Linux AV applications. _However_, as you'll find out if you corner me (personally) at the CABAL meeting, I'm probably the least well informed person about those programs. Fortunately, you'll probably find some people with the same interests, willing to experiment with you, if not people who've used those things. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor ----- End forwarded message ----- From ead-conspire at ixian.com Thu Dec 8 18:44:56 2005 From: ead-conspire at ixian.com (Eric De Mund) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:44:56 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 i386 CDs In-Reply-To: <20051209012747.GA31380@zgp.org> References: <20051208210016.GZ20139@linuxmafia.com> <20051209012747.GA31380@zgp.org> Message-ID: <17304.61352.166838.98657@bear.he.net> Rick, Rick Moen : ] If anyone _happens_ to have a CD set of Fedora Core 3 for i386, please ] do speak up. Thanks. I've got CDs labelled: FC3-i386-disc1 FC3-i386-disc4 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc2 FC3-i386-disc2 FC3-i386-rescuecd FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc3 FC3-i386-disc3 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc1 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc4 that I'll either bring with me on Saturday, or, if I'm not able to at- tend, will drop off ahead of time. Feel free to keep them for a couple of weeks, even, if need be, before returning them. Cheers, Eric -- Although written many years ago, "Lady Chatterley's Lover" has just been reissued by the Grove Press, and this pictorial account of the day-to- day life of an English gamekeeper is full of considerable interest to outdoor minded readers, as it contains many passages on pheasant-rais- ing, the apprehending of poachers, ways to control vermin, and other chores and duties of the professional gamekeeper. Unfortunately, one is obliged to wade through many pages of extraneous material in order to discover and savour those sidelights on the management of a midland shooting estate, and in this reviewer's opinion the book cannot take the place of J.R. Miller's "Practical Gamekeeping." --Ed Zern, "Field and Stream" (November 1959) Eric De Mund email: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 18:51:29 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 18:51:29 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 i386 CDs In-Reply-To: <17304.61352.166838.98657@bear.he.net> References: <20051208210016.GZ20139@linuxmafia.com> <20051209012747.GA31380@zgp.org> <17304.61352.166838.98657@bear.he.net> Message-ID: <20051209025129.GC20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Eric De Mund (ead-conspire at ixian.com): > I've got CDs labelled: > > FC3-i386-disc1 FC3-i386-disc4 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc2 > FC3-i386-disc2 FC3-i386-rescuecd FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc3 > FC3-i386-disc3 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc1 FC3-i386-SRPMS-disc4 > > that I'll either bring with me on Saturday, or, if I'm not able to at- > tend, will drop off ahead of time. Feel free to keep them for a couple > of weeks, even, if need be, before returning them. Thank you, sir. It'll be good to have those, if we turn out to need 'em. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 8 20:37:37 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:37:37 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you Message-ID: <20051209043737.GQ3859@linuxmafia.com> Many of you will have followed the rather eyebrow-raising story of Sony / Bertelsman Music Group (BMG) and the spyware / trojan-horse / vendor-rootkit / security-crippling software sneaked aboard some infuriatingly large number of that firm's audio CDs. This evening, down here at the annual LISA conference in San Diego, we got a pair of amazingly good, and creative, short lectures: One was by cryptographer Matt Blaze, who talked briefly about physical lock security in comparison to cryptography, and then leapt from there directly to describing an NSF-funded project he ran to study methods law enforcement agencies use to conduct court-approved wiretapping. I couldn't possibly do the talk justice, but suffice it to say that the Justice Department has crippled the Feds' current, supposedly state-of-the-art CALEA wiretapping methods by insisting on backwards-compatibility measures that make them trivial to counteract. Your tax dollars at work, folks. The other talk was by the always-amazing Dan Kaminsky, carrying out -- yes -- even more tricks with DNS. This time, Dan has found a way to compile profiles on the nature, behaviour, and interaction of _all_ of the world's DNS nameservers. Yep, all of them. A lot of information has emerged from his raw data already, including the fact that a perilously large nubmer of networks are at risk of cache poisoning on account of _still_ relying on (and often forwarding queries to) vulnerable BIND8 nameservers. Relevant to that Sony BMG scandal -- in which, by the way, Sony have released no fewer than _three_ "uninstall" kits that uniformly _do not_ install Sony's trojaning software -- Dan mentioned that he took the time to test all of the world's nameservers, to find out how many had "connected.sonymusic.com" in their DNS caches. That hostname is significant because Sony BMG's rootkit "phones in" to a machine using that hostname. Any DNS nameserver that already has that name in cache is one that (to a close approximation) has had at least one Sony-infected Windows machine querying it. Anyhow, I'm proud of you folks -- you CABAL members and Cheryl, the sole member of my household to operate an MS-Windows box. Judging from a quick check of my nameserver, _none_ of the Windows machines you've set up to query my nameserver has been Sony-crippled. Which means none of you was unwary enough to say "Yes" when a Sony-published audio CD, inserted into your Windows computer, asked to "upgrade" (or such) the software on your computer. Er, actually, I'm honestly not certain that Deirdre's DHCP server, the Apple Airport Extreme in the living room, queries _my_ nameserver. But that's what I checked: ------ $ dig connected.sonymusic.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +norecurse ; <<>> DiG 9.3.1 <<>> connected.sonymusic.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +norecurse ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 21691 ;; flags: qr ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 13 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;connected.sonymusic.com. IN A ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: com. 125260 IN NS E.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS F.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS H.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS I.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS J.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS K.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS L.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS M.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS B.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. com. 125260 IN NS D.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.5.6.30 A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 120462 IN AAAA 2001:503:a83e::2:30 B.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.33.14.30 B.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 120462 IN AAAA 2001:503:231d::2:30 C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.26.92.30 D.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.31.80.30 E.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.12.94.30 F.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.35.51.30 G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.42.93.30 H.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.54.112.30 I.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.43.172.30 J.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.48.79.30 K.GTLD-SERVERS.NET. 67474 IN A 192.52.178.30 ;; Query time: 48 msec ;; SERVER: 198.144.195.186#53(198.144.195.186) ;; WHEN: Thu Dec 8 19:54:38 2005 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 497 $ ------ For whatever it's worth, neither 198.144.192.2 nor 198.144.192.4, the main nameservers at my upstream bandwidth provider, Raw Bandwith Communications, has that hostname in cache, either. How many of the world's nameservers _do_ have that name in cache, indicating that there are Sony-infected PCs next to them? Around 460,000 nameservers, Dan says. No kidding. And, by the way, the _very best_ article on the Sony BMG scandal was Bruce Schneier's: He asked: How is it possible that the anti-virus vendors completely missed Sony BMG's compromise and rootkitting of millions of Windows machines? The answer, of course is: They _didn't_ miss it. But they made an apparently conscious decision to "forget" to alert their customers. (Honorable exceptions: ClamAV and F-Secure -- everyone else's hands were dirty, to my knowledge.) Next time you're told you need to install anti-virus software to protect your Windows box, remember whom those companies work for. It simply ain't you. http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,69601,00.html http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/11/sonys_drm_rootk.html That went straight onto my "virus rants" pages, when I heard about _that_ bit of infamy. From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Thu Dec 8 23:10:25 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 23:10:25 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you References: Message-ID: On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 20:37:37 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: [snip] > Anyhow, I'm proud of you folks -- you CABAL members and Cheryl, the sole > member of my household to operate an MS-Windows box. Judging from a > quick check of my nameserver, _none_ of the Windows machines you've set > up to query my nameserver has been Sony-crippled. Which means none of > you was unwary enough to say "Yes" when a Sony-published audio CD, > inserted into your Windows computer, asked to "upgrade" (or such) the > software on your computer. [snip] Sorry, but I couldn't resist: XB9526JJHLA:~ danielg4$ ssh -X linuxmafia.com Linux linuxmafia.com 2.4.27-2-686 #1 Tue Aug 16 16:31:22 JST 2005 i686 GNU/Linux The programs included with the Debian GNU/Linux system are free software; the exact distribution terms for each program are described in the individual files in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright. Debian GNU/Linux comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by applicable law. Last login: Mon Dec 5 22:17:27 2005 from gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us danielg4 at linuxmafia:~$ exec wget -O - http://connected.sonymusic.com --23:08:00-- http://connected.sonymusic.com/ => `-' Resolving connected.sonymusic.com... 64.14.39.158 Connecting to connected.sonymusic.com|64.14.39.158|:80... connected. HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found 23:08:01 ERROR 404: Not Found. Connection to linuxmafia.com closed. XB9526JJHLA:~ danielg4$ Whoops, I was going to add ">/dev/null" but forgot. Oh well. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 00:49:04 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:49:04 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051209084904.GF20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > Sorry, but I couldn't resist: [...] > danielg4 at linuxmafia:~$ exec wget -O - http://connected.sonymusic.com [...] > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found Well, I've not actually tried to find out what Sony BMG and First4Internet have been doing with their ability to covertly control (and spy on) half a million Windows boxen during the past year-plus, because that's actually the _least_ interesting aspect to me, but: 1. I'm not at all certain the host ever responded on port 80. 2. If it did, it'd be a bit reckless of them to provide anything positioned right at the document root. 3. And I'd be really surprised if that host were _still_ doing much of substance, after all this publicity. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 9 00:48:51 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:48:51 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Collection of music software for Linux References: Message-ID: On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:40:46 -0800, Robert S. Johnstone wrote: [snip] > In the pages: > > * A roadmap for Planet CCRMA > > > * Sound and Music Applications > > > there as lists of dozens of available software packages. > The years of labor they must represent is staggering. > > For purposes of discussion, I am interested in programs such as > > snd sound editor > Csound software synthesizer > Timidity software sampler > ZynAddSubFX software synthesizer > > but claim no particular expertise in such technology. [snip] Here's a bigger list: http://linux-sound.org/one-page.html On Monday, I posted this regarding TiMidity++: http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2005-December/001582.html Since then, I have discovered that a Debian package does exist for the EAW patches, and I edited the following page accordingly: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MidiSoftwareSynthesisHowTo Fed up with the incompleteness of the stock config file for the EAW patches, I went to the following page and installed the fifth soundfont from the top: http://timidity.s11.xrea.com/files/readme_cfgp.htm I now have the EAW patches loaded and then overridden by the soundfont. This way, the patches fill in the gaps in the soundfont. The results have been largely excellent, with only one major mistake: In one single-track, piano-only MIDI file, a drum kit was substituted for the piano. Note that that page also has a different (better?) config file for the EAW patches, but I have not tried it since this soundfont mostly sounds oh so much better than those patches. I will be willing to demonstrate the setup with whatever MIDI files people choose. From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 9 00:54:03 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:54:03 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you References: Message-ID: The key line was actually this one: > Resolving connected.sonymusic.com... 64.14.39.158 I would have thought my sense of humor was accessible enough for most people not to miss that in this context. On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:49:04 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > >> Sorry, but I couldn't resist: > [...] >> danielg4 at linuxmafia:~$ exec wget -O - http://connected.sonymusic.com > [...] >> HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found > > Well, I've not actually tried to find out what Sony BMG and > First4Internet have been doing with their ability to covertly control > (and spy on) half a million Windows boxen during the past year-plus, > because that's actually the _least_ interesting aspect to me, but: > > 1. I'm not at all certain the host ever responded on port 80. > 2. If it did, it'd be a bit reckless of them to provide anything > positioned right at the document root. > 3. And I'd be really surprised if that host were _still_ doing > much of substance, after all this publicity. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 00:56:32 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:56:32 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051209085632.GH20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > The key line was actually this one: [..] > I would have thought my sense of humor was accessible enough for most > people not to miss that in this context. Oops, sorry! I please fatigue and too much of LOPSA's excellent Zinfandel. From togo at of.net Fri Dec 9 01:04:29 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 01:04:29 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051209090429.GA18623@of.net> According to Daniel Gimpelevich, > The key line was actually this one: > > > Resolving connected.sonymusic.com... 64.14.39.158 > > I would have thought my sense of humor was accessible enough for most > people not to miss that in this context. dude:~# whois 64.14.39.158 OrgName: Savvis OrgID: SAVVI-2 Address: 3300 Regency Parkway City: Cary StateProv: NC PostalCode: 27511 Country: US ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.exodus.net:4321/ NetRange: 64.14.0.0 - 64.14.255.255 CIDR: 64.14.0.0/16 NetName: SAVVIS NetHandle: NET-64-14-0-0-1 Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0 NetType: Direct Allocation NameServer: DNS01.SAVVIS.NET NameServer: DNS02.SAVVIS.NET NameServer: DNS03.SAVVIS.NET NameServer: DNS04.SAVVIS.NET Comment: RegDate: Updated: 2004-10-07 OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE11-ARIN OrgAbuseName: Abuse OrgAbusePhone: +1-877-393-7878 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse at savvis.net OrgNOCHandle: NOC99-ARIN OrgNOCName: Network Operations Center OrgNOCPhone: +1-800-213-5127 OrgNOCEmail: ipnoc at savvis.net OrgTechHandle: UIAA-ARIN OrgTechName: US IP Address Administration OrgTechPhone: +1-888-638-6771 OrgTechEmail: ipadmin at savvis.net Over my head. From jane_ikari at yahoo.com Fri Dec 9 01:08:55 2005 From: jane_ikari at yahoo.com (bruce coston) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 01:08:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [conspire] the fedora from dvd i have Message-ID: <20051209090855.37585.qmail@web60819.mail.yahoo.com> im kicking it off the island for permission problems. but the latest MEPISlite rc looks bad too. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 9 01:31:26 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:31:26 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you References: Message-ID: OK, so maybe I should explain. Rick was bragging about how the fact that not only had nobody in his household nor any fellow customer of the same ISP been affected by Sony's spyware was evidenced by the IP address of that hostname not being in either nameserver cache, so I "corrected that oversight" by logging into his main server and resolving the hostname, thereby caching it in both. A whois of 64.14.39.158 is a bit over my head as well. On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:04:29 -0800, Tony Godshall wrote: > According to Daniel Gimpelevich, >> The key line was actually this one: >> >> > Resolving connected.sonymusic.com... 64.14.39.158 >> >> I would have thought my sense of humor was accessible enough for most >> people not to miss that in this context. > > dude:~# whois 64.14.39.158 > > OrgName: Savvis > OrgID: SAVVI-2 > Address: 3300 Regency Parkway > City: Cary > StateProv: NC > PostalCode: 27511 > Country: US > > ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.exodus.net:4321/ > > NetRange: 64.14.0.0 - 64.14.255.255 > CIDR: 64.14.0.0/16 > NetName: SAVVIS > NetHandle: NET-64-14-0-0-1 > Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0 > NetType: Direct Allocation > NameServer: DNS01.SAVVIS.NET > NameServer: DNS02.SAVVIS.NET > NameServer: DNS03.SAVVIS.NET > NameServer: DNS04.SAVVIS.NET > Comment: > RegDate: > Updated: 2004-10-07 > > OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE11-ARIN > OrgAbuseName: Abuse > OrgAbusePhone: +1-877-393-7878 > OrgAbuseEmail: abuse at savvis.net > > OrgNOCHandle: NOC99-ARIN > OrgNOCName: Network Operations Center > OrgNOCPhone: +1-800-213-5127 > OrgNOCEmail: ipnoc at savvis.net > > OrgTechHandle: UIAA-ARIN > OrgTechName: US IP Address Administration > OrgTechPhone: +1-888-638-6771 > OrgTechEmail: ipadmin at savvis.net > > > > Over my head. From togo at of.net Fri Dec 9 09:06:48 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:06:48 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051209170648.GA8489@of.net> Ah, I thought there was something humorous about sonymusic appearing not to be Sony. According to Daniel Gimpelevich, > OK, so maybe I should explain. Rick was bragging about how the fact that > not only had nobody in his household nor any fellow customer of the same > ISP been affected by Sony's spyware was evidenced by the IP address of > that hostname not being in either nameserver cache, so I "corrected > that oversight" by logging into his main server and resolving the > hostname, thereby caching it in both. A whois of 64.14.39.158 is a bit > over my head as well. > > On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 01:04:29 -0800, Tony Godshall wrote: > > > According to Daniel Gimpelevich, > >> The key line was actually this one: > >> > >> > Resolving connected.sonymusic.com... 64.14.39.158 > >> > >> I would have thought my sense of humor was accessible enough for most > >> people not to miss that in this context. > > > > dude:~# whois 64.14.39.158 > > > > OrgName: Savvis > > OrgID: SAVVI-2 > > Address: 3300 Regency Parkway > > City: Cary > > StateProv: NC > > PostalCode: 27511 > > Country: US > > > > ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.exodus.net:4321/ > > > > NetRange: 64.14.0.0 - 64.14.255.255 > > CIDR: 64.14.0.0/16 > > NetName: SAVVIS > > NetHandle: NET-64-14-0-0-1 > > Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0 > > NetType: Direct Allocation > > NameServer: DNS01.SAVVIS.NET > > NameServer: DNS02.SAVVIS.NET > > NameServer: DNS03.SAVVIS.NET > > NameServer: DNS04.SAVVIS.NET > > Comment: > > RegDate: > > Updated: 2004-10-07 > > > > OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE11-ARIN > > OrgAbuseName: Abuse > > OrgAbusePhone: +1-877-393-7878 > > OrgAbuseEmail: abuse at savvis.net > > > > OrgNOCHandle: NOC99-ARIN > > OrgNOCName: Network Operations Center > > OrgNOCPhone: +1-800-213-5127 > > OrgNOCEmail: ipnoc at savvis.net > > > > OrgTechHandle: UIAA-ARIN > > OrgTechName: US IP Address Administration > > OrgTechPhone: +1-888-638-6771 > > OrgTechEmail: ipadmin at savvis.net > > > > > > > > Over my head. > > _______________________________________________ > conspire mailing list > conspire at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire -- Best Regards, Tony From bpm at idiom.com Fri Dec 9 09:34:50 2005 From: bpm at idiom.com (Breen Mullins) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:34:50 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box In-Reply-To: <20051209012747.GA31380@zgp.org> References: <20051208210016.GZ20139@linuxmafia.com> <20051209012747.GA31380@zgp.org> Message-ID: <20051209173450.GB7245@idiom.com> On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 05:27:47PM -0800, Don Marti wrote: > > Fedora Core 4 was released in June, so that means it > would probably be a good idea not to count on getting > updates for 3 for much longer. Yep. They've announced that FC3 is moving to the Legacy Project as of December 23. Time to upgrade if you haven't already. Breen -- Breen Mullins Menlo Park, California From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 09:46:49 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:46:49 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051209174649.GI20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > OK, so maybe I should explain. Rick was bragging about how the fact that > not only had nobody in his household nor any fellow customer of the same > ISP been affected by Sony's spyware was evidenced by the IP address of > that hostname not being in either nameserver cache, so I "corrected > that oversight" by logging into his main server and resolving the > hostname, thereby caching it in both. Yes. You garnered the evening's "dry humour" award. In case people missed one particular fine point of my "dig" test: $ dig connected.sonymusic.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +norecurse ^^^^^^^^^^ I set the "norecurse" flag on my query specifically so that queried nameserver ns1.linuxmafia.com would _not_ forward the request to other nameservers, if it lacks that information. And, Daniel, your wget fetch from linuxmafia.com's shell prompt actually did _not_ put "connected.sonymusic.com" into ns1.linuxmafia.com's cache, because apparently your request got routed to one of Raw Bandwidth's nameservers, instead of to mine: :r /etc/resolv.conf search linuxmafia.com deirdre.org nameserver 198.144.192.2 nameserver 198.144.192.4 nameserver 198.144.195.186 (The last of the three IPs is ns1.linuxmafia.com. Your request went to one of the other two.) One easy way to _actually_ load my nameserver's cache is, well, with "dig": $ dig connected.sonymusic.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +short 64.14.39.158 _Now_, it's in cache. ;-> $ dig connected.sonymusic.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +norecurse ; <<>> DiG 9.3.1 <<>> connected.sonymusic.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +norecurse ; (1 server found) ;; global options: printcmd ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 52040 ;; flags: qr ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;connected.sonymusic.com. IN A ;; ANSWER SECTION: connected.sonymusic.com. 3280 IN A 64.14.39.158 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: sonymusic.com. 3280 IN NS udns2.ultradns.net. sonymusic.com. 3280 IN NS udns1.ultradns.net. ;; Query time: 5 msec ;; SERVER: 198.144.195.186#53(198.144.195.186) ;; WHEN: Fri Dec 9 09:43:52 2005 ;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 109 $ From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 10:53:15 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 10:53:15 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box Message-ID: <20051209185315.GU3859@linuxmafia.com> ----- Forwarded message from wood eddie ----- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:30:35 -0800 (PST) From: wood eddie To: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Thanks. Perhaps some background would be of help: Legacy code from 2-3 years ago(2002 era) runs fine on pre-existing Dell Optiplex GX110. This runs Redhat Linux 7.3. Now need another workstation to continue this work. Legacy code consists of some 'C'/C++, Java, and some 'packages', some open source some proprietary. Somehow when time to get a new workstation, a Dell Optiplex GX520 was purchased. Initial attempt to run RHL 7.3 did not bode well due to X.11 and USB mouse anomaly, network adapter support seems to be missing as well. First attempt was done at SVLUG Mt. View last month(Nov 2005) where recommendation was to go to a supported Rehat release hence FC1, FC3, FC4. Also, some testing on FC3(but not FC4) with legacy code which seems to work OK initially, based on limited testing. Bottom line: it would fit purchase if can make RHL 7.3 to run on GX520. Barring this, might have to run say FC3/4, then VMWare on top, so can support RHL 7.3. Thats all I have. So whats the recommendated suggestion ? BTW, believe VMWare had version that supports RHL 7.3 and Redhat Enterprise but not FC. So the present effort on FC may not be the way to go afterall, unless can make VMware to run on top of FC3/4. Hope I am making sense here. Thx, Eddie - Rick Moen wrote: [snip Eddie's upside-down quoting] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 10:49:09 -0800 To: wood eddie Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com From: Rick Moen Quoting wood eddie (ewood111 at yahoo.com): > Thanks. Perhaps some background would be of help: Legacy code from > 2-3 years ago(2002 era) runs fine on pre-existing Dell Optiplex GX110. > This runs Redhat Linux 7.3. Now need another workstation to continue > this work. Legacy code consists of some 'C'/C++, Java, and some > 'packages', some open source some proprietary. Somehow when time to > get a new workstation, a Dell Optiplex GX520 was purchased. Initial > attempt to run RHL 7.3 did not bode well due to X.11 and USB mouse > anomaly, network adapter support seems to be missing as well. First > attempt was done at SVLUG Mt. View last month(Nov 2005) where > recommendation was to go to a supported Rehat release hence FC1, FC3, > FC4. Also, some testing on FC3(but not FC4) with legacy code which > seems to work OK initially, based on limited testing. > > Bottom line: it would fit purchase if can make RHL 7.3 to run on > GX520. Barring this, might have to run say FC3/4, then VMWare on top, > so can support RHL 7.3. Thats all I have. So whats the recommendated > suggestion ? BTW, believe VMWare had version that supports RHL 7.3 and > Redhat Enterprise but not FC. So the present effort on FC may not be > the way to go afterall, unless can make VMware to run on top of FC3/4. > Hope I am making sense here. Eddie -- Thanks for giving us a more-precise understanding of your situation. How would you feel about installing CentOS in place of FC4? CentOS is (in my view) the best of the community "rebuilds" of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, providing _precisely_ the same software contents as (at present) RHEL4 Update 2 or RHE3 Update 6 (your choice of two development branches), with the bare minimum of changes performed to replace Red Hat, Inc.'s trademark-encumbered images, names, and stylings. Thus, but for trademark-based branding, it _is_ RHEL. I would strongly discourage installing RH 7.3 at this extremely late date: It is no longer a reasonable option on both security and hardware-support grounds. Just to make sure I didn't succumb to temptations to install it for someone in a moment of weakness, I long ago threw away my installation media. ;-> You would know better than I what the system-compatiblity needs of your legacy C, C++, Java, and sundry-binary software is, but key version numbers (e.g., libraries, kernels) are shown on DistroWatch's pages for CentOS, among other places: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=centos We have i386 CDs for CentOS 4.2 (equivalent of RHEL4 Update 2). I don't think we currently have CentOS 3.6 (equivalent of RHEL3 Update 6), but could fetch those if you expected to need them. I would speculate that your code might be tripping up on FC4's v 2.6.11 kernel and possibly its v. 2.3.5 glibc. You'll notice that CentOS 3.6 has kernel 2.4.21 and glibc 2.3.2 (as opposed to CentOS 4.2's kernel v. 2.6.9 and glibc v. 2.3.4). Over the longer term, you're going to have to deal with RH 7.3 dependency being a _big_ problem: If you see "RH Releases" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/RedHat/ , you'll see that the RH 7.x architecture is absolutely dead, dead, dead: The last release using that architecture was RHAS (now called RHEL) v. 2.1 in 2002. Red Hat is committed in theory to supporting _commercial_ RHAS 2.1 customers through 2007, which in practice will almost certainly mean just the bare minimum of security fixes required to limp those customers along until the support contracts expirt -- and nothing _at all_ for RH 7.x itself. Third-party support efforts for 7.x are thin, and haven't been working very well. (It's a bit of a thankless task.) Again, referring to my "RH Releases" page, you'll see that the severely-aging-but-not-yet-dead RHEL3 architecture is a retread of RH9. This is corporate America's current gold standard for Linux (though the smarter ones are migrating to SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 9). FC1, but not later Fedora Core releases, recycles that architeture. It uses RH's heavily patched 2.4.21 kernel and the reasonably stable v. 2.3.2 glibc. For now, that would be fine for a Celeron system. (For x86-64, by contrast, RHEL3 and kin are dysfunctional, which is one reason why that architecture's a dead-end.) And, of course, the newer RHEL4 (CentOS 4.2) architecture, like Novell/SUSE's SLES9 release, radically departs from that to use very modern 2.3.x glibc versions and 2.6 kernels. Your legacy code, like a lot of people's is going to get clobbered in that transition: Your challenge for 2005-6 will be to find something functional _and maintainable_ to run it. I suspect that CentOS 3.6 will be your correct answer. Apologies for length, but I expect the above will help you understand the current RH-compatible landscape better. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor ----- End forwarded message ----- From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 12:06:27 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:06:27 -0800 Subject: [conspire] x86-64 and 2.6 kernels (was: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box) In-Reply-To: <20051209185315.GU3859@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051209185315.GU3859@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051209200627.GA20597@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: [Stuff about the three recent lines of RH-compatible enterprise distros, each of the three comprising a distinct binary "target platform": o RH 7.3, RHAS 2.1, CentOS2 (all defunct) o RH 9, RHEL3, CentOS 3.x o FC1, RHEL4 Note that FC2 and later are not even _in_ this map, being _way_ too fast-moving and unsettled for "enterprise" use.] > Again, referring to my "RH Releases" page, you'll see that the > severely-aging-but-not-yet-dead RHEL3 architecture is a retread of RH9. > This is corporate America's current gold standard for Linux (though the > smarter ones are migrating to SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 9). FC1, but > not later Fedora Core releases, recycles that architeture. It uses RH's > heavily patched 2.4.21 kernel and the reasonably stable v. 2.3.2 glibc. > For now, that would be fine for a Celeron system. (For x86-64, by > contrast, RHEL3 and kin are dysfunctional, which is one reason why that > architecture's a dead-end.) OK, I'm going to bore y'all with a further state-of-the-market analysis, so brace yourselves for a geek rant. Here's the elephant in the room that the Linux-using enterprise world is dragging its feet on acknowledging: IA32 is dead. Yes, my cheap-ass PIII and PII boxes still are IA32. Eddie's Celeron is. Maybe your boxes. You can even go a little out of your way and buy, today, a P4. _But that would be dumb._ It's gone with the dodos, guys. The market has moved on. AMD started it with those wildly successful Opterons, defining a CPU spec that had a company-specific marketing name of "AMD64" but now is generically dubbed "x86-64". Intel, with considerable ill-grace, eventually followed bobbing in AMD's wake -- which was pretty painful for them to do, but they did it -- with "Xeon64" chips that implement that same x86-64, in a minor variant that they choose to call "EM64T" for reasons, basically, of corporate pride. (That is not to say they aren't good: I think they're poised to trounce the AMD guys.) Intel's and AMD's designs are so close in their programming interfaces that they're functionally the same, from the point of view of an admin running Linux -- or even, in most situations, of programmers. Thus, we call those systems (generically) "x86-64", regardless of which firm made the CPU or what marketing terms it slapped onto the box. And x86-64 makes a huge difference. The Linux-using enterprise world has a problem: It's buying x86-64 hardware like candy, and RHEL3 doesn't work properly on that. It simply doesn't. Red Hat's infamously overcomplicated kernel-maintenance process keeps cranking out "2.4" kernels in its "Update" service packs, that are really 2.4 kernels in name only: They're crammed to the gills with backported 2.6-kernel patches -- a slapdash effort that works well enough on IA32 systems (PII, PIII, Celeron, P4, plain Xeon) but _not_ on x86-64. Those systems are unstable unless you _statically compile_ the kernels. They fall over when run under heavy load. They have bugs all over the place. Bugs that are minor on IA32 become major when the same code is run under x86-64. So, you might ask, why doesn't Red Hat simply retrofit a 2.6 kernel to RHEL3? They _physically_ could, and it _would_ fix the x86-64 problems. The reason they don't do it -- and will never do it -- is that doing so would contradict their product strategy: They promised the business world that each RHAS/RHEL release would remain a stable binary platform for five years. So, they're trapped, by their own corporate strategy, into keeping RHEL3 on a "2.4" kernel, even if it's that in name only. The upshot is that you really cannot run stable x86-64 systems (unless really lightly loaded) on RHEL3. You never will be able to -- except by supplying your own, non-vendor 2.6 kernel, and thereby foregoing the very corporate support you bought RHEL for in the first place. So, basically, modern hardware is going to _require_ enterprise Linux distros based on 2.6 kernels -- like FC4, RHEL4, and SLES9. And that specifically _excludes_ 2.4-based distros like RHEL3 / RHAS 2.1, not to mention Red Hat 7.x. They're gone. Forget them. The moment you switch to the newer CPU architectures, they're obsolete -- and _that_ horse is already out of the barn. Which leaves people like Eddie, charged with making badly written legacy proprietary code (written with unnecessary dependencies on RH 7.3-era system software) in a real long-term quandary. Eddie's not alone, and there is going to be a lot of stranded code out there. This problem is going to keep getting worse. (You read it here first!) From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 12:17:50 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:17:50 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: x86-64 and 2.6 kernels (was: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box) In-Reply-To: <20051209200627.GA20597@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051209185315.GU3859@linuxmafia.com> <20051209200627.GA20597@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051209201750.GA21914@linuxmafia.com> Brief correction:` > The upshot is that you really cannot run stable x86-64 systems (unless > really lightly loaded) on RHEL3. You never will be able to -- except by > supplying your own, non-vendor 2.6 kernel, and thereby foregoing the > very corporate support you bought RHEL for in the first place. > > So, basically, modern hardware is going to _require_ enterprise Linux > distros based on 2.6 kernels -- like FC4, RHEL4, and SLES9. ^^^ Actually, the conventional corporate rules of the game _exclude_ Fedora Core (any version), not to mention Debian, Kubuntu, MEPIS, etc. from the "enterprise" category. They're talking about a system with a guaranteed binary programming interface over at least 3-5 years, plus paid support and updates even if they suck. Don't ask me to justify that: I'm just describing the rules as they're played. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 9 12:44:34 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:44:34 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box Message-ID: <20051209204433.GX3859@linuxmafia.com> ----- Forwarded message from wood eddie ----- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:19:23 -0800 (PST) From: wood eddie To: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Thanks. Is CentOS 3.6 supported as a 'host' OS by vmware ? Cannot find in the following http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines Thx, Eddie --- Rick Moen wrote: [snip Eddie's upside-down, pointless quotation of the entire preceding thread] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen ----- Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 12:41:11 -0800 To: wood eddie Cc: installers at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: Dec 10 CABAL 4pm at Menlo Park(Linux install Fest) Reply-To: installers at linuxmafia.com From: Rick Moen Quoting wood eddie (ewood111 at yahoo.com): > Thanks. Is CentOS 3.6 supported as a 'host' OS by > vmware ? Cannot find in the following > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_virtual_machines Eddie -- Well, you can't find any _other_ distribution on that page, either. ;-> VMware 5.5 OS support is shown in the chart on http://www.vmware.com/support/guestnotes/doc/ . Notice that RHEL-whatever are fully represented. Thus, by implication, matching CentOS releases are, too -- just not officially. As an indicator, even Oracle 9i RDBMS installs cleanly on CentOS. If you insist on being able to call VMware technical support and tell them (without lying) that you're running a "supported OS", you'll obviously need to stick to what's on that chart. Notice that Fedora Core is _not_ on that chart -- which is hardly surprising. ----- End forwarded message ----- From dmarti at zgp.org Fri Dec 9 15:39:44 2005 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 15:39:44 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: x86-64 and 2.6 kernels (was: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box) In-Reply-To: <20051209201750.GA21914@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051209185315.GU3859@linuxmafia.com> <20051209200627.GA20597@linuxmafia.com> <20051209201750.GA21914@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051209233944.GB1771@zgp.org> begin Rick Moen quotation of Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 12:17:50PM -0800: > Actually, the conventional corporate rules of the game _exclude_ Fedora > Core (any version), not to mention Debian, Kubuntu, MEPIS, etc. from the > "enterprise" category. They're talking about a system with a guaranteed > binary programming interface over at least 3-5 years, plus paid support > and updates even if they suck. Don't ask me to justify that: I'm > just describing the rules as they're played. The "rules" are based on the consensus between proprietary Unix vendors and the proprietary application vendors. Red Hat isn't binary-compatible with proprietary Unix, but it is business-relationship-compatible. -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ dmarti at zgp.org From peter.knaggs at gmail.com Sat Dec 10 19:38:04 2005 From: peter.knaggs at gmail.com (Peter Knaggs) Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 19:38:04 -0800 Subject: [conspire] penlug DNS seems to be down... Message-ID: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> Hi Bill, Being a mere DNS newbie, I followed Rick's suggestion of using dnsreport to check the penlug.org domain's nameservers http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=penlug.org At the moment it gives: Category: NS Status: Fail Test name: NS Information: A timeout occurred getting the NS records from your nameservers! None of your nameservers responded fast enough. They are probably down or unreachable. Peter. From deirdre at deirdre.net Sun Dec 11 00:03:01 2005 From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 00:03:01 -0800 Subject: [conspire] An interesting way of marketing Linux Message-ID: http://lobby4linux.com/WordPress/?p=63 -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net From bill at wards.net Sun Dec 11 01:42:55 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 01:42:55 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> The registrar, joker.com, was down. That means the nameservers were down too. My personal and business sites were also affected. It seems to be OK now. Needless to say I'm thinking about finding a more reliable solution... On 12/10/05, Peter Knaggs wrote: > Hi Bill, > > Being a mere DNS newbie, I followed Rick's > suggestion of using dnsreport to check the > penlug.org domain's nameservers > http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=penlug.org > > At the moment it gives: > Category: NS > Status: Fail > Test name: NS > Information: A timeout occurred getting the NS > records from your nameservers! None of your > nameservers responded fast enough. They are > probably down or unreachable. > > Peter. > -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From peter.knaggs at gmail.com Sun Dec 11 11:17:22 2005 From: peter.knaggs at gmail.com (Peter Knaggs) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:17:22 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: <20051209174649.GI20139@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051209174649.GI20139@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1851b6c80512111117u34ecbeb7y11e67c20ff5bd5d0@mail.gmail.com> Ahh, so that might explain the recent update from Microsoft, which asks the user to reply yes or no to the following curious question: Do you want to install the Microsoft Malicious Program Removal Tool Hard to know what context "Malicious" is being used in, these days... Still, as long as you remember that Microsoft's real customers are the big Media companies, and not us "consumers" it's fairly clear: It's simply a Program Removal Tool from the newly-created branch of Microsoft, "Microsoft Malicious" :) From togo at of.net Sun Dec 11 14:21:04 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:21:04 -0800 Subject: [conspire] MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's Message-ID: <20051211222104.GB1315@of.net> Hi, folks. Anyone tried the Airlink MIMO routers and cards available at Fry's for $30 and $20 yet? (today's adverts). Obviously the router/AP would work, but I'm wondering what the chipsets are and what the chipsets in the cards are and what the Linux support is. Did a quick google search but didn't find anything by brand. But that's not surprising- it's the chipset that counts and the Fry's ads don't mention that (surprise, surprise). Airlinks have been a good bargain for me in the past (worked well enough and cheap). Looks like the sale's good till Tues, so I may check them out. Price looks worth the drive. Anyone know if the higher-speed cards (802.11g and MIMO) do better in the latency department than the old ones did (ssh over early 802.11b chipsets was painful). Tempted by the 60GB mp3/mpeg4 player too- I shouldn't. ;-) Best Regards, Tony From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Dec 11 21:31:26 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:31:26 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: <1851b6c80512111117u34ecbeb7y11e67c20ff5bd5d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20051209174649.GI20139@linuxmafia.com> <1851b6c80512111117u34ecbeb7y11e67c20ff5bd5d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051212053126.GL20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Peter Knaggs (peter.knaggs at gmail.com): > Ahh, so that might explain the recent update > from Microsoft, which asks the user to reply > yes or no to the following curious question: > > Do you want to install the > Microsoft Malicious Program Removal Tool > > Hard to know what context "Malicious" is being > used in, these days... > > Still, as long as you remember that Microsoft's > real customers are the big Media companies, and > not us "consumers" it's fairly clear: It's simply > a Program Removal Tool from the newly-created > branch of Microsoft, "Microsoft Malicious" :) (Apparently, "Malicious Program Removal Tool" is from MSFT's 2003-06 acquisition of GeCAD Software: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/jun03/06-10GeCadPR.mspx ) Yes, one does wonder whether some of what these firms consider "malicious" isn't subject to redefinition as corporate needs dictate. They might, with their next update, decide that Kazaa and eMule are brimming with malice, for example. ;-> It occurs to me that, for those running proprietary (and especially binary-only proprietary) software, including on Linux, one possible "canary" for Sony-type misbehaviour is to perform the ritual that we free-software people typically do, and that the "desktop" crowd does not: Read those goddamned licences. No, really: _Read_ them. When companies like Sony BMG set out to screw their customers through technological measures, their lawyers will generally insist that they finagle some liability shield for misdeeds they would be most likely to be sued over -- which will, of course, be typically right there in the licence agreement. Companies count on you _not_ reading licences ("EULAs" and such), and do nothing to make it natural or easy, e.g., tiny viewing windows, no easy provision to save a copy for later, etc. You're hustled towards the "I agree" button -- at your peril. People who bothered to read the Sony BMG EULA would have seen very clear advance warning of the worst of their misbehaviour -- though one must make sure one's paranoia filter is enabled: ...this CD will automatically install a small proprietary software program... The language goes on to give you ersatz reassurances about what the program will _not_ do: the software will not be used at any time to collect any personal information from you, whether stored on your computer or otherwise That's like saying "You authorise the application of this nightstick to parts of your body. At no time will the nightstick pick your pocket." You expressly acknowledge and agree that you are installing and using the licensed materials at your own sole risk. Ah, so it doesn't matter what their stuff does; they're claiming to duck all responsibility. The phrase "at your own sole risk" should always set off alarm bells, whether you hear it from a strange yet high-privilege software package's licence or from a used-car dealer. The software is intended to protect the audio files embodied on the CD, and it may also facilitate your use of the digital content. This should, again, trigger suspicion: "Protect" against what? And why should your listening to an ordinary CD digital audio file be "facilitated" by a "small proprietary software program"? That doesn't make sense at all. Of course, they mean "protecting" the music against _you_, by screwing around with your computer and wrestling control over it from you. There are lots of other crazy provisions, e.g. the term of this EULA shall terminate immediately, without notice [...] in the event that you [file bankruptcy or similar] The EULA never details precisely what they're going to do to you, but the liability disclaimer should be sufficient warning that they want the litigation decks clear for it possibly meaning "Any damned thing we want." Anyhow, much fun like that can expect to be found in licences in software _not just_ issued by the music and motion picture industries, but _also_ in software firms suborned by them. As Schneier pointed out, nearly all of the major security-alert and antivirus firms' hands were provably dirty in this case. It is known, in fact, that for three weeks immediately following the Sony BMG story's becoming public, many of those firms were in long meetings with Sony executives, presumably working out their game plan. ClamAV was an honourable exception. So was Finnish AV firm F-Secure: http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2005/tc20051129_938966.htm Mind you, I don't think Sony BMG planned in detail to screw up people's computers. More likely, they just outsourced the "piracy problem" to UK firm First4Internet, and then had little idea what exactly they did in Sony's name. Another interesting question is: What _other_ business interests have suborned most of the major security and antivirus firms? For starters, there are all the _other_ copyright barons behind the RIAA and MPAA. What sort of PC security disasters are _they_ already carrying out on millions of unsuspecting citizens? Also, I'd be incredibly wary of the major _gaming_ firms: Considering the intolerable actions carried out by, for example, Blizard Entertainment (makers of World of Warcraft, StarCraft, etc.) to sue out of existence volunteers at the former "battle.net" domain who wrote an _independent, from-scratch_ daemon compatible with their Warcraft game software -- using, naturally, DMCA thuggery. Given that level of scruple, and their famous liking for copy prevention (er, "protection") software sabotage, what _other_ sorts of system trojaning are they likely to hide in their binaries? At minimum, keep reading those EULAs: If there are odd rights they're asserting, you should wonder why. Me, I would not let a Blizzard Entertainment product -- or any of its untrustworthy competitors, near any of my machines. (Blizzard products are not welcome in my house at all.) Along the same lines, if someone asks you to run an unknown binary with system privilege, with no ability to inspect, you should wonder why. http://www.packetstormsecurity.org/distributed/index2.html File Name: find_ddos_v42_linux.tar.Z Description: Find_ddos v4.2 (linux) - The NIPC has developed a tool to assist in combating ddos agents. The tool scans a local system that is either known or suspected to contain a DDOS program. The tool will detect several known denial-of-service attack tools including tfn2k client, tfn2k daemon, trinoo daemon, trinoo master, tfn daemon, tfn client, stacheldraht master, stacheldraht client, stachelddraht demon and tfn-rush client. Solaris version also available. Who's NIPC, you might ask? Oh, that is or was the National Infrastructure Protection Center, founded as an FBI agency under Carter and apparently now gradually being engulfed by other parts of Department of Homeland Security. (The www.nipc.gov Web site is gone, for example.) When NIPC published that "find_ddos_v42_linux.tar.Z" tool in 2001, and made it available only as a statically-linked, stripped, i386 Linux ELF binary, I sent them a polite "Are you kidding?" mail -- pointing out that they were asking Linux users to engage in one of the bad habit that would tend to get their sites compromised in the first place, and that nobody was going to take them serious until, at minimum, they released the matching C code and build instructions. They never replied. Quoting the README (on a copy found at http://remoteassessment.com/darchive/190989699.html): The tool will detect several known denial-of-service attack tools by looking at all 32-bit ELF format files in a given directory tree, and comparing the files' strings and symbol table against a set of known "fingerprints" for TFN and trinoo tools. [...] The tool must be run as root. In other words, it professed to be a pattern-matching thing like most mailware checkers. But what amuses me in retrospect is up at the top: This material and tool is furnished on an "as is" basis. Sound familiar? This is pretty much the same as "at your sole risk". Mind you, I'm not saying _all_ such warranty disclaimers are evil. I'm saying that a blanket disclaimer _combined_ with unauditable binary code that you're asked to run _privileged_ should make you raise your eyebrows -- and say no. (Rob Rosenberger at http://vmyths.com/resource.cfm?id=26&page=1 has more unflattering things to say about NIPC, including their tendency towards empty publicity-seeking and reprinting other security researchers work without credit.) From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Dec 11 22:22:31 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:22:31 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Ward (bill at wards.net): > The registrar, joker.com, was down. That means the nameservers were > down too. My personal and business sites were also affected. It > seems to be OK now. Needless to say I'm thinking about finding a more > reliable solution... Man, that _was_ unfortunate. And a little difficult to foresee, actually. They had your DNS on three reassuringly diverse IPs (all apparently in Germany, on three netblocks registered to "Computer Service Langenbach"): 194.245.50.1 194.245.101.19 194.176.0.2 At a guess, one would have imagined that it would be difficult for a single failure mode to take down all three at the same time. I'll be curious to find out how they managed it. ;-> Here's a third-party discussion but no explanation: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.domain-names.registries/browse_thread/thread/59a5a846c1d79fed/7f39d97eef742904?lnk=st&q=%22joker.com%22&rnum=5#7f39d97eef742904 Bill, I'm guessing that you just want a provider who does your DNS, gets it right, and doesn't make you worry about details. If so, you're right; you just need to find someone else to do the whole package. If you ever decide to take more direct charge of what your DNS consists of and what nameservers it runs on, I'd be glad to write your zonefile for you, give you some pointers, and offer secondary nameservice. (The latter would have kept your domains running during joker.com's downtime.) From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Sun Dec 11 22:24:49 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:24:49 -0800 Subject: [conspire] MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's References: Message-ID: I did my own search, and this turned up, worth a read for anybody considering getting MIMO at this point in time: http://seclists.org/lists/security-basics/2005/Nov/0333.html The canonical centralized database of wireless chipsets now appears to be: http://linux-wless.passys.nl/ That led me to this page: http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Vendors Mission accomplished: Airlink MIMO chipset identified. On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:21:04 -0800, Tony Godshall wrote: > > Hi, folks. > > Anyone tried the Airlink MIMO routers and cards available > at Fry's for $30 and $20 yet? (today's adverts). > > Obviously the router/AP would work, but I'm wondering what the > chipsets are and what the chipsets in the cards are and what > the Linux support is. > > Did a quick google search but didn't find anything by brand. > But that's not surprising- it's the chipset that counts and > the Fry's ads don't mention that (surprise, surprise). > > Airlinks have been a good bargain for me in the past (worked > well enough and cheap). Looks like the sale's good till > Tues, so I may check them out. Price looks worth the drive. > > Anyone know if the higher-speed cards (802.11g and MIMO) do > better in the latency department than the old ones did (ssh > over early 802.11b chipsets was painful). > > Tempted by the 60GB mp3/mpeg4 player too- I shouldn't. ;-) > > Best Regards, > > Tony From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 12 01:29:02 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 01:29:02 -0800 Subject: [conspire] penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051212092902.GB7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Peter Knaggs (peter.knaggs at gmail.com): > Being a mere DNS newbie, I followed Rick's > suggestion of using dnsreport to check the > penlug.org domain's nameservers > http://www.dnsreport.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=penlug.org Now that joker.com's nameservice is back up, we can see how they do normally. The only significant problem is an error that's extremely common among one-stop Internet providers: no glue records, because they're lazy with choice of nameserver hostnames. Result: unnecessarily slow DNS service. To explain that, I have to explain glue records. When someone out on the Internet tries to connect to host linuxmafia.com, he generates a burst of DNS queries: The user's nameserver needs to find out (1) what nameserver(s) to ask for all "linuxmafia.com" name information, and then (2) asks one of those nameservers the actual IP address for host linuxmafia.com. To do the first step, the user's nameserver asks .COM's nameservers about the "linuxmafia.com" domain's "NS" (nameserver) records, like this (snipping irrelevant stuff): ~ $ dig -t ns linuxmafia.com @k.gtld-servers.net ;; ANSWER SECTION: linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns.on.primate.net. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns.primate.net. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns1.linuxmafia.com. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns1.thecoop.net. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns2.linuxmafia.com. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: ns.on.primate.net. 172800 IN A 207.44.185.143 ns.primate.net. 172800 IN A 198.144.194.12 ns1.linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN A 198.144.195.186 ns1.thecoop.net. 172800 IN A 216.218.255.165 ns2.linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN A 63.193.123.122 (Please just take my word for it that "k.gtld-servers.net" is one of the .COM top-level domian's nameservers. I can explain, but would rather skip that, here.) The "ANSWER SECTION" lines give the literal answers to the posed question "What are the NS records for domain linuxmafia.com?" -- but please notice _also_ the matching "ADDITIONAL SECTION" lines sent _along with_ that requested information. That's the "glue" -- sent in anticipation of, and in answer to, the user's nameserver's obvious _next_ question. That is, notice that each "NS" line says, in effect, "Here's a _hostname_ of an 'authoritative' nameserver machine you can ask about name information within the 'linuxmafia.com' domain." But the querying nameserver uses IP addresses to open remote connections, so it thus has to look up the _IP_ of one of those nameservers, before it can ask questions. That would be a second DNS lookup. Sending the "glue" information -- the IP addresses corresponding to each of those NS records -- avoids the querying nameserver's need to ask the "What's the IP for that nameserver hostname" question immediately after its "What's the nameserver hostname?" question, by anticipating the second question and sending both answers at the same time. And, in penlug.org's case, the parent .ORG zone's nameservers aren't sending glue information. Imagine, again, that a user's nameserver (a "querying nameserver") wants to look up penlug.org names, and therefore asks .ORG where to find the domains nameservers. Again, please just take my word that nameserver "tld6.ultradns.co.uk" is authoritative for .ORG information: ~ $ dig -t ns penlug.org @tld6.ultradns.co.uk ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: penlug.org. 86400 IN NS c.ns.joker.com. penlug.org. 86400 IN NS b.ns.joker.com. penlug.org. 86400 IN NS a.ns.joker.com. The .ORG namservers didn't send any "A" (glue) records for nameservers {c,b,a}.ns.joker.com -- just the hostnames. Therefore, the querying nameserver has to turn around and ask the .COM hierarchy what the IP addresses of _those_ names are, before it can go further: ~ $ dig -t a c.ns.joker.com @k.gtld-servers.net ;; ANSWER SECTION: c.ns.joker.com. 172800 IN A 194.245.50.1 Thus, two queries required instead of one, just to find the nameservers -- ergo, unnecessarily slow nameservice. And, if you're still with me, you might wonder _why_ .ORG's nameservers aren't sending glue information for c.ns.joker.com and its two brothers. Simple: They're in a name hierarchy that .ORG's nameservers don't know anything about, namely .COM . That's really all there is to it. .ORG's nameservers have no _authority_ in that namespace -- and it's really important, in order to prevent "cache poisoning" (injection of fraudulent name information into nameservers), that DNS software reject that sort of "out-of-bailiwick" responses, including glue records. Thus, joker.com's .COM-based nameserver names simply _can't_ be used in an .ORG domain's glue records: They wouldn't be valid. So, you might ask, why is joker.com, a supposedly professional service provider, specifying .COM nameserver names inside an .ORG domain -- given that it's an obvious and avoidable error? Because they're being lazy and, well, unprofessional. What they _should_ have done -- and this would have taken them maybe twenty lines of Perl -- is noticed the problem, and created "A" (IP-lookup) records pointing to their same nameserver IP addresses, except using new hostnames ns1.penlug.org, ns2.penlug.org, and ns3.penlug.org. And then use _those_ in the parent .ORG records for penlug.org, in place of that "c.ns.joker.com" name and the other two. Doing that would have allowed proper glue information to flow out of .ORG, and everything would have been just a wee bit faster and more reliable. joker.com's doing that would honestly have been _no harder_ for them -- but they didn't bother. Judging by joker.com's recent downtime, they probably have a lot bigger problems, but I just thought I'd mention that glue records are one of those things that you can use to distinguish those who bother to do things properly from those who don't, and why. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 12 09:40:01 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:40:01 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: x86-64 and 2.6 kernels (was: Fedora Core 3 for a Celeron Dell desktop box) In-Reply-To: <20051209201750.GA21914@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051209185315.GU3859@linuxmafia.com> <20051209200627.GA20597@linuxmafia.com> <20051209201750.GA21914@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051212174000.GA21403@linuxmafia.com> Correcting myself: > Actually, the conventional corporate rules of the game _exclude_ > Fedora Core (any version), not to mention Debian, Kubuntu, MEPIS, etc. > from the "enterprise" category. They're talking about a system with a > guaranteed binary programming interface over at least 3-5 years, plus > paid support and updates even if they suck. Actually, I've just checked RH's documentation, and they promise a _seven_-year support life (product life) for each release. Novell promises a minimum product life of five years for Novell Linux Desktop 9, and seven years for SLES9. The reason RHEL4 (as opposed to RHEL3) isn't working too well for x86-64, so far, is a lot of little bugs on that CPU platform, notably spottily missing 32-bit libs. Thus the momentum behind SLES9. Which is really kind of annoying, in part because RH has been, for all of people's grousing about some of its doings, a much better friend of the open source / free-software community -- which can be seen, among many other things, in the fact that I can lawfully give anyone a copy of RHEL3 or RHEL4 (whose software contents are 100% open source), but the same is not true of SLES or Novell Linux Desktop, on account of restricted proprietary components. From peter.knaggs at gmail.com Mon Dec 12 13:37:03 2005 From: peter.knaggs at gmail.com (Peter Knaggs) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:37:03 -0800 Subject: [conspire] penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <20051212092902.GB7646@linuxmafia.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <20051212092902.GB7646@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1851b6c80512121337x7eb730b8jf4bd65fecf12f721@mail.gmail.com> Hi Rick, Wow, thanks for your explanation. I had seen you explain glue records before in a slightly different context, but seeing it explained for our own penlug.org really makes it a whole lot more memorable :) So when you hinted about offering to do secondary DNS, would that mean we'd need to get the .org nameserver to add an NS entry for ns1.linuxmafia.org (and a glue record for ns1.linuxmafia.org pointing it to the real ns1.linuxmafia.com)? Sounds complicated :) Cheers, Peter. From bill at wards.net Mon Dec 12 13:52:19 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 13:52:19 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> On 12/11/05, Rick Moen wrote: > Bill, I'm guessing that you just want a provider who does your DNS, gets > it right, and doesn't make you worry about details. If so, you're > right; you just need to find someone else to do the whole package. That's right. And the domain registration too. Joker has a pretty good system whcih works quite well, except for this recent outage. I trust they will find a fix that will prevent the same in the future, so I'll give them another chance. The main problem was that the joker.com nameservice was dead, so the joker.com nameservers didn't resolve. Glue records would have fixed that. If you don't mind, I'd like to forward your detailed analysis to them...? One other important feature that Joker offers is web and email forwarding. I use this to get all my email routed to my gmail account, and gmail's "Accounts" feature to have my outgoing mail appear to come from my own domains. I also use the Web forwarding so that certain domain/host names redirect the user to the canonical Web address for the site. Both features require using Joker-hosted DNS, which alas means that providing my own secondary DNS is not possible. --Bill. -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 12 14:55:10 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:55:10 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051212225510.GM3859@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Ward (bill at wards.net): > That's right. And the domain registration too. Joker has a pretty > good system whcih works quite well, except for this recent outage. I > trust they will find a fix that will prevent the same in the future, > so I'll give them another chance. The main problem was that the > joker.com nameservice was dead, so the joker.com nameservers didn't > resolve. Glue records would have fixed that. If you don't mind, I'd > like to forward your detailed analysis to them...? Of course, you're very welcome to. It'd probably be best if you elide my editorial comments about laziness and lack of professionalism, though. ;-> Honestly, there shouldn't have been any way for all three of their nameservers to cease functioning -- unless perhaps they somehow allowed their _own_ domain registration, i.e., their registration of joker.com, to enter the expiration 75-day period, or get hijacked, or be the subject of serious administrative errors? That would be a supremely embarrassing thing for a domain registrar to allow to happen to itself. It's a little difficult to tell, but looking at the whois record for "joker.com" _is_ consistent with that theory. It has: $ whois joker.com | more [Querying whois.internic.net] [Redirected to whois.joker.com] [Querying whois.joker.com] [whois.joker.com] domain: joker.com organization: CSL Computer Service Langenbach GmbH email: admin at joker.com address: Hansaallee 191-193 city: Duesseldorf postal-code: 40549 country: DE phone: +49 211 867670 admin-c: admin at joker.com#1 tech-c: admin at joker.com#1 billing-c: hostmaster at joker.com#0 reseller: CSL Computer Service Langenbach GmbH reseller: Duesseldorf, Germany reseller: Visit www.joker.com to get Domains nserver: a.ns.joker.com 194.176.0.2 nserver: b.ns.joker.com 194.245.101.19 nserver: c.ns.joker.com 194.245.50.1 status: lock created: 1994-11-27 00:00:00 UTC modified: 2005-12-08 16:07:48 UTC expires: 2007-08-03 11:02:10 UTC [...] Something happened to joker.com's own domain records on 2005-12-08. I can't tell what that was, at this date. You might ask them, and see what they have to say. > One other important feature that Joker offers is web and email > forwarding. I use this to get all my email routed to my gmail > account, and gmail's "Accounts" feature to have my outgoing mail > appear to come from my own domains. I also use the Web forwarding so > that certain domain/host names redirect the user to the canonical Web > address for the site. Both features require using Joker-hosted DNS, > which alas means that providing my own secondary DNS is not possible. I'm not sure that follows: In the regular model, the one "primary" server is where the hostnames are maintained, and all of the "secondary" servers automatically reflect the exact contents of what is at the primary site (using an update mechanism called "zone transfers"). Thus, using Joker-hosted DNS should not preclude also having additional non-Joker nameservers reflecting the Joker-defined zone contents. From bill at wards.net Mon Dec 12 15:01:30 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:01:30 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <20051212225510.GM3859@linuxmafia.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> <20051212225510.GM3859@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512121501t3631d3c6qd050b1ec924fae68@mail.gmail.com> On 12/12/05, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Bill Ward (bill at wards.net): [...] > Something happened to joker.com's own domain records on 2005-12-08. > I can't tell what that was, at this date. You might ask them, and see > what they have to say. Well, I assume you've heard about the whole Ebay Christmas issue? It seems someone phished ebay and did some domain registration hijinks on Ebay's behalf using joker.com, and joker.com was unresponsive when Ebay tried to breathe down their necks about it. They ended up getting Network Solutions to pull the plug on that domain, and my guess is somehow that ended up affecting joker itself. I don't know how though, and maybe it's just a coincidence. But yes, clearly some aspect of joker.com's registration was certainly altered on 12-08. > > One other important feature that Joker offers is web and email > > forwarding. I use this to get all my email routed to my gmail > > account, and gmail's "Accounts" feature to have my outgoing mail > > appear to come from my own domains. I also use the Web forwarding so > > that certain domain/host names redirect the user to the canonical Web > > address for the site. Both features require using Joker-hosted DNS, > > which alas means that providing my own secondary DNS is not possible. > > I'm not sure that follows: In the regular model, the one "primary" > server is where the hostnames are maintained, and all of the "secondary" > servers automatically reflect the exact contents of what is at the > primary site (using an update mechanism called "zone transfers"). > > Thus, using Joker-hosted DNS should not preclude also having additional > non-Joker nameservers reflecting the Joker-defined zone contents. Their software precludes it, not DNS itself. The Web-base DNS administration tool is required in order to get the forwarding features, and that tool does not allow one to set up nameservers other than the ones they provide. -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 12 15:10:37 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:10:37 -0800 Subject: [conspire] penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <1851b6c80512121337x7eb730b8jf4bd65fecf12f721@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <20051212092902.GB7646@linuxmafia.com> <1851b6c80512121337x7eb730b8jf4bd65fecf12f721@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051212231036.GE7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Peter Knaggs (peter.knaggs at gmail.com): > Wow, thanks for your explanation. No problem. Since I'm on an "explain DNS" kick, I may do at least one follow-up to my December 2005 "The Basics of DNS" article in _Linux Gazette_, attempting to cover such matters. In that article, you may have noticed, I explained about the four flavours of DNS service, explained the first three & showed that they were dead simple, and mostly punted on the fourth one, primary authoritative service. Which is of course what we're talking about, now. > So when you hinted about offering to do > secondary DNS, would that mean we'd need > to get the .org nameserver to add an NS entry > for ns1.linuxmafia.org (and a glue record for > ns1.linuxmafia.org pointing it to the real > ns1.linuxmafia.com)? Sounds complicated :) There's a simple way, and there's a slightly more complex but better way. The simple way is just add an "NS" record for ns1.linuxmafia.com. Boom, done. You would have to add that to both the penlug.org zonefile and in the domain records at the registrar. (The one aspect of primary authoritative DNS that people most often get wrong is failing to update records at the registrar when they change nameservers' NS or A records in their zonefiles.) The more-complex way is to first add NS and A records in penlug.org's zonefile for new hostname "ns4.penlug.org", with the A record pointing to ns1.linuxmafia.com's IP. Then -- per usual -- do the same in records at the registrar. Again, boom, done. In either case, someone would also have to adjust the master nameserver's security controls (ACLs) to let my IP pull down the zonefile from it. But that's really all that's required. Everything else is automatic, and I would neither have nor want any involvement in the actual contents of penlug.org's DNS, that being controlled 100% at the master nameserver, which according to the zonefile is "a.ns.joker.com". The only difference is, PenLUG would have greater redundancy. From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 12 15:12:23 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:12:23 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512121501t3631d3c6qd050b1ec924fae68@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> <20051212225510.GM3859@linuxmafia.com> <3d2fe1780512121501t3631d3c6qd050b1ec924fae68@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051212231223.GF7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Ward (bill at wards.net): > Well, I assume you've heard about the whole Ebay Christmas issue? It > seems someone phished ebay and did some domain registration hijinks on > Ebay's behalf using joker.com, and joker.com was unresponsive when > Ebay tried to breathe down their necks about it. They ended up > getting Network Solutions to pull the plug on that domain, and my > guess is somehow that ended up affecting joker itself. I don't know > how though, and maybe it's just a coincidence. Sounds plausible. I'd heard rumblings about the Ebay thing, but not the actual story -- which I'll now have to look up. > Their software precludes it, not DNS itself. The Web-base DNS > administration tool is required in order to get the forwarding > features, and that tool does not allow one to set up nameservers other > than the ones they provide. Ah, OK. From togo at of.net Mon Dec 12 18:24:16 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 18:24:16 -0800 Subject: [conspire] MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> > On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:21:04 -0800, Tony Godshall wrote: > > > > > Hi, folks. > > > > Anyone tried the Airlink MIMO routers and cards available > > at Fry's for $30 and $20 yet? (today's adverts). ... According to Daniel Gimpelevich, > I did my own search, and this turned up, worth a read for anybody > considering getting MIMO at this point in time: > > http://seclists.org/lists/security-basics/2005/Nov/0333.html I always assume Wifi is insecure. Iptables shields up and all transfers via ssh. Machines don't even ping. And even a little security by obscurity on top of that- sshd on a nonstandard port, unique per host (which is also handy when port-forwarding from the router- ssh to multiple hosts from single ip with a little simple $HOME/.ssh/config magic). > The canonical centralized database of wireless chipsets now appears to be: > > http://linux-wless.passys.nl/ Outstanding. Thank you sir- that's a site to bookmark. > That led me to this page: > > http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Vendors > > Mission accomplished: Airlink MIMO chipset identified. Outstanding. Thank you sir. Second reference to Atheros. I wonder of the router can link to another router? Anyone have experience with the latency of modern wireless chipsets? Have they improved at all or are they still way worse than wired? T From phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com Mon Dec 12 20:43:03 2005 From: phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com (Jeff Frasca) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:43:03 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: <20051212053126.GL20139@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051209174649.GI20139@linuxmafia.com> <1851b6c80512111117u34ecbeb7y11e67c20ff5bd5d0@mail.gmail.com> <20051212053126.GL20139@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051213044303.GA2462@sasquatch-infotech.com> On Sun, Dec 11, 2005 at 09:31:26PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Also, I'd be incredibly wary of the major _gaming_ firms: Considering > the intolerable actions carried out by, for example, Blizard > Entertainment (makers of World of Warcraft, StarCraft, etc.) to sue out > of existence volunteers at the former "battle.net" domain who wrote an > _independent, from-scratch_ daemon compatible with their Warcraft game > software -- using, naturally, DMCA thuggery. > > Given that level of scruple, and their famous liking for copy prevention > (er, "protection") software sabotage, what _other_ sorts of system > trojaning are they likely to hide in their binaries? At minimum, keep > reading those EULAs: If there are odd rights they're asserting, you > should wonder why. > > Me, I would not let a Blizzard Entertainment product -- or any of its > untrustworthy competitors, near any of my machines. (Blizzard products > are not welcome in my house at all.) I second these rules. I'm even of the opinion that Transgaming are a bunch parasites, they rip-off wine, put a bunch of cheap hacks in to replace the DirectX code and sell it under the Alladin license (or worse, I haven't been paying attention to them recently). (I have a legacy game that I periodically fail to get working with wine... I'm also pretty sure of its safety, being that it was published before all this bs became common, not that wine works.) I've made one major exception in the past: Id Software. They seem to have an unsullied reputation. They consistently port their games to Linux natively[1], they release code under the GPL at the end of the cycle, and they aren't on the anti-piracy-arms-race bandwagon (I've only played the Doom3 demo, however, I know the copy protection on Q3A was minimal). I also happen to play FPS games exclusively, mainly Quake and Q3A, so I don't feel I'm missing anything by ignoring all the other big name games (any other gaming desire I have can be solidly sated with open source games :). I just wanted to say that there is at least one studio that seems to understand the stupidity of the arms race and has been generally supportive of and savvy with the community. I'd still read the EULA, just in case. As far as anyone else goes, I sure hope that Steam isn't the future of game distribution. I'll continue to stay away. (Besides the fact that they won't port...) Jeff [1] Funny note about their native ports: they started this with Quake. A cracker broke into their servers, stole the Quake code and posted it on the 'net. A friendly Linux hacker ported it and sent a patch back to Id. Instead of prosecuting, they accepted the patch and released the port. They've ported every engine since. From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 12 21:42:44 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 21:42:44 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Perimeter vs. host-edge security (wqs: MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's) In-Reply-To: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> References: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> Message-ID: <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Tony Godshall (togo at of.net): > I always assume Wifi is insecure. Iptables shields up and all > transfers via ssh. Machines don't even ping. And even a little > security by obscurity on top of that- sshd on a nonstandard port, > unique per host (which is also handy when port-forwarding from the > router- ssh to multiple hosts from single ip with a little simple > $HOME/.ssh/config magic). This seems as good a time as any to mention the security policy of 2033 Sharon Road (Deirdre's and my house), which is where CABAL has met for the last five years: Basically, we provide unfiltered Internet access, period. When you connect machines to our LAN, absent special arrangements you will be on a Dynamic NAT network segment (wired or wireless), serviced by an Apple Airport base station that to my knowledge does no filtering other than (if Deirdre has set up the device correctly) disallowing ICMP broadcast and IP-address spoofing. In consequence, guests are largely responsible for their own security. Be warned. Our stance owes partly to personal preference, and partly to circumstance. The preference part is that we're accustomed to unmediated, unfiltered Internet access, we're used to the idea of hosts not trusting each other or the network, and we basically like things wide open. The circumstance part is that the incoming broadband connection provisions our /29 IP subnet arrives over an aDSL bridge, with the result that unfiltered Internet traffic from Raw Bandwidth Communications (RBC) touches our five outside IP addresses (my server, Deirdre's, the base station, and up to two others) whether we like that or not. It would be theoretically possible to interpose IP-filtering between inside and outside LANs where they meet at the Airport base station, but we basically don't really bother. wired wired and wireless IP network IP network 198.144.195.184/29 10.0.1.0/24 - - - - - - --------------------------- ------------------------------ | | | | | | | | RBC linuxmafia.com deirdre.net Airport Cheryl's PC Rick guest router (DNAT) laptop PC Because we don't control RBC's router, and because of the bridged connection to that firm, our five usable IPs on the "outside" LAN have never had, within reason, the option of some magic firewall contraption to collectively protect them, so each host has a "security perimeter" at the edge of its case: Each machine looks out for itself. Now, I'm not trying to be critical of your approach, Tony, but just wanted to call your attention to a security model that differs conceptually from yours. (You probably have a physical layout with an incoming "single IP" chokepoint that lends itself better to perimeter security, for one thing.) We don't bother running sshds or anything else on non-standard ports. We assume that all services on our hosts will be port-scanned, probed, and attacked continually. And we assume that intruders might at some point compromise various hosts and use them to attack the others. So, everything's exposed, nothing's hidden, and no host trusts any other. Which turns out to work very well, and suit us. Advantages include extreme clarity and simplicity about where the risks lie, no false sense of security about perimeter security, and no bizarre and mysterious network failures caused by hidden network nannies. (If you've never had a difficult time diagnosing a network problem, and hours later discovered an IP filter that someone forgot to mention, count yourself lucky.) We _do_ have a few monitoring and detection tricks deployed that we don't talk about much, but those are the only exceptions. From togo at of.net Tue Dec 13 02:29:27 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 02:29:27 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Perimeter vs. host-edge security (wqs: MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's) In-Reply-To: <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051213102927.GA10415@of.net> According to Rick Moen, > Quoting Tony Godshall (togo at of.net): > > > I always assume Wifi is insecure. Iptables shields up and all > > transfers via ssh. Machines don't even ping. And even a little > > security by obscurity on top of that- sshd on a nonstandard port, > > unique per host (which is also handy when port-forwarding from the > > router- ssh to multiple hosts from single ip with a little simple > > $HOME/.ssh/config magic). ... > Now, I'm not trying to be critical of your approach, Tony, but just > wanted to call your attention to a security model that differs > conceptually from yours. (You probably have a physical layout with an > incoming "single IP" chokepoint that lends itself better to perimeter > security, for one thing.) ... Yeah, I just use the one static IP. I'm not sure the philosophy differs that much... I just have more layers and a single IP addr. Linux boxes are pretty secure without the router/firewall and the iptables, and I wouldn't hesitate to run them that way if I had the IP addrs to spare. But I do enjoy tweaking the iptables to limit even the nature of the systems inside. The whole point of running sshd with nonstandard port numbers started out as a convenience issue rather than a security issue- I wanted to be able to get to dude or sena or nib from the road. But why not add a layer of security by obscurity on top of the rest- as long as you aren't counting on it. Sounds like you are doing a little bit of the same... > We _do_ have a few monitoring and detection tricks deployed that we > don't talk about much, but those are the only exceptions. Say, have you deployed the tarpit module at all? Looks like an altruistic thing to use on spammer-zombies and ddos'ers (keeps them from moving onto the next victim). From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 13 05:14:32 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 05:14:32 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Perimeter vs. host-edge security (wqs: MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's) In-Reply-To: <20051213102927.GA10415@of.net> References: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> <20051213102927.GA10415@of.net> Message-ID: <20051213131431.GN3859@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Tony Godshall (togo at of.net): > Yeah, I just use the one static IP. I'm not sure the > philosophy differs that much... I just have more layers > and a single IP addr. Linux boxes are pretty secure > without the router/firewall and the iptables, and I > wouldn't hesitate to run them that way if I had the IP > addrs to spare. But I do enjoy tweaking the iptables to > limit even the nature of the systems inside. I used to be a wee bit militant in the "I don't need no steenkin' firewall" department, but have mellowed a bit after seeing different approaches work well for different people. Earlier, mostly I'd been seeing people shoot themselves in the foot with filtering rulesets -- like the 1980s boss who entered a set of them into an Ascend router but forgot to save them to NVRAM. Next router reboot, no more ruleset -- factory-default permit policy -- which became apparent when customers started sending comments about things they liked and didn't on the developers' ftp and NFS servers. More often than that is people simply getting the rulesets wrong, and either crippling security, network functionality, or both. Not that the rulesets aren't potentially a good thing, but complexity is the enemy of reliability to some extent -- and implementing a simple model that you understand well is often _effectively_ better, in my experience, than attempting something tricky. (In part, my attitude is a reaction to pointy-haired managers who erroenously think throwing more software at any security situation is the way to improve security, when more often removing software and simplifying is in general a better remedy.) > The whole point of running sshd with nonstandard port numbers started > out as a convenience issue rather than a security issue- I wanted to > be able to get to dude or sena or nib from the road. But why not add > a layer of security by obscurity on top of the rest- as long as you > aren't counting on it. Sounds like you are doing a little bit of the > same... Well, aside from having some monitoring mechanisms I don't go into particulars about, all I can think of is making sshd respond on 23/tcp (telnet port) in addition to 22/tcp (ssh). That's handy when I encounter moron outfits that think they're doing themselves a favour by blocking outbound SSH access -- which happens depressingly often. (And, after all, I have no other use for inbound telnet on my server.) > Say, have you deployed the tarpit module at all? Looks like an > altruistic thing to use on spammer-zombies and ddos'ers (keeps them > from moving onto the next victim). If you mean tarpitting via iptables rules -- e.g., IPTables::IPv4::DBTarpit::Tools and the dbtarpit C daemon -- no. Be careful of tarpitting techniques: Anything that plays footsie with attackers can get you into trouble in a myriad of ways, and I am extremely wary of automated active defences. You can easily end up DoSing yourself. There are also two distinct types of tarpitting ("teergrubing") sometimes implemented in SMTP servers. The truly nasty variety is the one where, when your MTA determines that sender is a malware bot or something else whose time it wishes to chew up, the MTA keeps the delivering remove machine's socket open for as long as possible, by sending continuation SMTP messages -- essentially, saying to it "Are you still there? Please keep holding." I call this "truly nasty" in part because it's a two-edged sword: It slows down and hampers the spammers by tying up their resources, but each socket of theirs that you keep open as long as possible on their end, is also a socket you're keeping open as long as possible on _your_ end. You probably have better things to do with your MTA than telling thousands of spam processes "Please hold." My MTA therefore doesn't ever attempt that particular trick. My MTA does a number of initial checks on incoming SMTP attempts for RFC compliance, e.g., possession of the required postamaster and abuse accounts, etc., before passing the incoming SMTP stream through SpamAssassin. If SA gives the mail an _extremely_ high spamicity score, then my MTA applies the gentler variety of mail tarpitting: 450 temporary delivery failure messages. (Those responses are also used by greylisting techniques.) -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 13 06:05:47 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:05:47 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Perimeter vs. host-edge security (wqs: MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's) In-Reply-To: <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051213140547.GA16083@linuxmafia.com> Typo patrol: > wired wired and wireless > IP network IP network > 198.144.195.184/29 10.0.1.0/24 > - - - - - - --------------------------- ------------------------------ > | | | | | | | | > RBC linuxmafia.com deirdre.net Airport Cheryl's PC Rick guest > router ^^^ (DNAT) laptop PC Actually, deirdre.ORG. Deirdre has deirdre.net hosted elsewhere. In my recent follow-up message: > There are also two distinct types of tarpitting ("teergrubing") sometimes > implemented in SMTP servers. The truly nasty variety is the one where, > when your MTA determines that sender is a malware bot or something else > whose time it wishes to chew up, the MTA keeps the delivering remove ^ remote > machine's socket open for as long as possible, by sending continuation > SMTP messages -- essentially, saying to it "Are you still there? Please > keep holding." Also, just to clarify: > We _do_ have a few monitoring and detection tricks deployed that we > don't talk about much, but those are the only exceptions. What I'm mostly talking about are "canaries" of various sorts, e.g., IDS mechanisms and system/network analysis. One of the principles of network design is "defence in depth". Unfortunately, many -- maybe even most -- people misinterpret this dictum as meaning "add more layers", which is not in itself necessarily a good thing at all, and is often outright harmeful. For an example of how people shoot themselves in the foot with gadet-freak security software, please see: "Portsentry Considered Harmful" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Security From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 13 06:34:19 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:34:19 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: penlug DNS seems to be down... In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <3d2fe1780512110142k8caa811i6e00388cf563f773@mail.gmail.com> <20051212062231.GM20139@linuxmafia.com> <3d2fe1780512121352i23c443d6of51c375d6e91863@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20051213143419.GI7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bill Ward (bill at wards.net): [Apologies if I slightly injure threading by using the wrong In-Reply-To header, but I've already deleted your post, and so am quoting it from the Web archive.] > Well, I assume you've heard about the whole Ebay Christmas issue? It > seems someone phished ebay and did some domain registration hijinks on > Ebay's behalf using joker.com, and joker.com was unresponsive when > Ebay tried to breathe down their necks about it. They ended up > getting Network Solutions to pull the plug on that domain, and my > guess is somehow that ended up affecting joker itself. Covered by the fellow who attempted to end the phishing scam in question, on his blog at http://richi.co.uk/blog/2005/12/ebay-phishing-saga-in-summary.html : Thursday, December 08, 2005 eBay phishing saga; in summary... (VRSN)(EBAY) Last week I noted a problem reporting a phishing email to eBay. I'm pleased to report that the phishing website -- ebaychristmas.net -- is now down. However, I'm not pleased to report how long it took. The detail behind the delay is instructive... From first report to takedown took 13 days (November 25 to December 7), which is simply unacceptable. However, despite the hilarious response (http://richi.co.uk/blog/2005/12/ebays-anti-phishing-desk-sucks.html) from their "Trust and Safety Department," you should note that eBay wasn't the main factor in this delay. Indeed, the company claims that it first started takedown proceedings on November 8. The main issue was that the phishing webserver was hosted on a botnet of virus-compromised PCs. The DNS entry for the web site served up a sequence of IP addresses, so that requests for the webpage could go to one of many machines. In other words, taking down "the website" wasn't an option. Removing the DNS entry was the only practical takedown option. However, the DNS registrar for the domain -- Joker.com, a small company based in Switzerland -- was completely unresponsive to all requests to investigate. Finally, it seems Verisign -- the controller of the .net top-level domain stepped in and removed authority for ebaychristmas.net away from Joker.com. Now requests for the web site come back "no such host." This sorry saga illustrates the fact that it's important for domain registrars to act quickly and responsibly when abuses such as phishing are brought to their attention. Authorities upstream of the registrar need to be able to exercise some sort of leverage if they don't act. Things have calmed down a little on the site now, but please feel free to click an interesting advertisement to help me pay for bandwidth! Coverage at: http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20051206/tc_pcworld/123842 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1897035,00.asp (None of this casts any light on why _all_ of joker.com's namservers simultaneously dropped off the Net over the weekend, but it's interesting, anyway.) From dmarti at zgp.org Tue Dec 13 10:13:27 2005 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:13:27 -0800 Subject: [conspire] No Sony DRM around here; I'm proud of you In-Reply-To: <20051213044303.GA2462@sasquatch-infotech.com> References: <20051209174649.GI20139@linuxmafia.com> <1851b6c80512111117u34ecbeb7y11e67c20ff5bd5d0@mail.gmail.com> <20051212053126.GL20139@linuxmafia.com> <20051213044303.GA2462@sasquatch-infotech.com> Message-ID: <20051213181327.GA18400@zgp.org> begin Jeff Frasca quotation of Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 08:43:03PM -0800: > [1] Funny note about their native ports: they started this with > Quake. A cracker broke into their servers, stole the Quake code > and posted it on the 'net. A friendly Linux hacker ported it and > sent a patch back to Id. Instead of prosecuting, they accepted > the patch and released the port. They've ported every engine > since. Doom came out for Linux in 1994. Dave Taylor: "Be a pal and don't pirate doom.wad and doom2.wad it if you'd be so kind." ... "I did this 'cause Linux gives me a woody. It doesn't generate revenue. Please don't call or write us with bug reports." http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/historic-linux/distributions/slackware/2.1/contrib.4cd/linux-x-doom/README.linux -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ dmarti at zgp.org From dmarti at zgp.org Tue Dec 13 10:26:17 2005 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:26:17 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Perimeter vs. host-edge security (wqs: MIMO wireless cards cheap at Fry's) In-Reply-To: <20051213131431.GN3859@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051213022416.GA3018@of.net> <20051213054244.GG7646@linuxmafia.com> <20051213102927.GA10415@of.net> <20051213131431.GN3859@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051213182617.GB18400@zgp.org> begin Rick Moen quotation of Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 05:14:32AM -0800: > I call this "truly nasty" in part because it's a two-edged sword: It > slows down and hampers the spammers by tying up their resources, but > each socket of theirs that you keep open as long as possible on their > end, is also a socket you're keeping open as long as possible on _your_ > end. You probably have better things to do with your MTA than telling > thousands of spam processes "Please hold." My MTA therefore doesn't > ever attempt that particular trick. The main problem I see with this one is that I've already turned down the number of incoming SMTP connections I'm willing to accept, to account for the spam-filtering software that gets run for each one. 100 Postfix smtpd processeses: fine. 100 smtpds plus 100 spamc processes plus a busy spamd: not fine. And since I can't really tell if one of my relatively few smtpd processes is going to be just ticking along teergrubing or clobbering the server with regular expressions, I have to assume the latter, and not teergrube. -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ dmarti at zgp.org From sigje at sigje.org Tue Dec 13 11:04:14 2005 From: sigje at sigje.org (Jennifer Davis) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:04:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [conspire] December 15: BayLISA Short But Cools (THIS THURSDAY) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Date: Thursday, December 15 2005 Where: Apple Campus 4 Infinite Loop, Cupertino California in Garage 1 (room upstairs) Free and Open to the General Public! 7:15 pm Socialize 7:30 pm Introductions and announcements 7:35 pm SBCs from JS Riehl - Novell and Linux Steve Hand - Xen Andre Stechert - Splunk Ben Rockwood - OpenSolaris Satish Dharmaraj and Anand Palaniswamy - Zimbra Matthew Dillow - DragonFly Project It's a packed evening.. so be on time or you _will_ miss parts of the presentations. Food and drink will be provided! We also have some give aways, and books for review from Apress, O'Reilly, and Addison Wesley. Remember, these are shorter style presentations.. Times will be monitored closely. If you really enjoy any (or all) particular talk let us know and we'll schedule a longer talk. For detailed information about the topics please look at the BayLISA website http://www.baylisa.org. rsvp at rsvp at baylisa.org. From ajd at adavies.net Tue Dec 13 11:20:41 2005 From: ajd at adavies.net (Alan) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:20:41 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. Message-ID: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> Hi All, I've been looking for a group of people that meet on a regular basis in the bay area dealing with corporate Microsoft systems. I'm a help desk manager that's looking to share and develop new ideas particulary around MS desktop/laptop OS's. If you know of such a group please let me know. Regards, Alan Davies From mark at cosmicpenguin.com Tue Dec 13 13:53:52 2005 From: mark at cosmicpenguin.com (Mark S Bilk) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:53:52 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. In-Reply-To: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> Message-ID: <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 11:20:41AM -0800, Alan wrote: >Hi All, > >I've been looking for a group of people that meet on a regular basis in >the bay area dealing with corporate Microsoft systems. I'm a help desk >manager that's looking to share and develop new ideas particulary around >MS desktop/laptop OS's. If you know of such a group please let me know. > >Regards, >Alan Davies Sounds like you want the Church of Satan, but I don't know if they have a branch around here. Mark From deirdre at deirdre.net Tue Dec 13 14:08:26 2005 From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:08:26 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. In-Reply-To: <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> Message-ID: On Dec 13, 2005, at 1:53 PM, Mark S Bilk wrote: > Sounds like you want the Church of Satan, but I don't know > if they have a branch around here. I was just gonna say "Good luck with that" but that *that* sounded too snarky. Seriously, though, I'd check places like sdforum. Even if they don't have them, people who attend their events may know where to find one. Other than that, I'd have no idea where one would look (but I consider that a feature in my life). -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net From ajd at adavies.net Tue Dec 13 14:37:42 2005 From: ajd at adavies.net (Alan) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:37:42 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. In-Reply-To: <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> Message-ID: <439F4D36.2000702@adavies.net> Yes, but it pays the bills and I actually like the work I do. I also means I get to spend my free time working on worthwhile systems. When it comes to a certain group of computer inept folks XP is not a bad solution. Mark S Bilk wrote: >On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 11:20:41AM -0800, Alan wrote: > > >>Hi All, >> >>I've been looking for a group of people that meet on a regular basis in >>the bay area dealing with corporate Microsoft systems. I'm a help desk >>manager that's looking to share and develop new ideas particulary around >>MS desktop/laptop OS's. If you know of such a group please let me know. >> >>Regards, >>Alan Davies >> >> > >Sounds like you want the Church of Satan, but I don't know >if they have a branch around here. > > Mark > > > > > From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 13 14:45:28 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:45:28 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. In-Reply-To: <439F4D36.2000702@adavies.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> <439F4D36.2000702@adavies.net> Message-ID: <20051213224528.GL7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alan (ajd at adavies.net): > Yes, but it pays the bills and I actually like the work I do. I also > means I get to spend my free time working on worthwhile systems. When > it comes to a certain group of computer inept folks XP is not a bad > solution. I'm glad that works for you, and am considering creating a mailing list to help support your business, offtopic at linuxmafia.com . ;-> -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com Tue Dec 13 15:04:38 2005 From: phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com (Jeff Frasca) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:04:38 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. In-Reply-To: <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20051213230438.GA1042@sasquatch-infotech.com> On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 01:53:52PM -0800, Mark S Bilk wrote: > On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 11:20:41AM -0800, Alan wrote: > >Hi All, > > > >I've been looking for a group of people that meet on a regular basis in > >the bay area dealing with corporate Microsoft systems. I'm a help desk > >manager that's looking to share and develop new ideas particulary around > >MS desktop/laptop OS's. If you know of such a group please let me know. > > > >Regards, > >Alan Davies > > Sounds like you want the Church of Satan, but I don't know > if they have a branch around here. Last time I had to admin an NT box was in High School, and the thing was finicky (it would occasionally do the full on BSOD, in all its register-dump-to-the-screen glory, there was nothing to do beside reboot the stupid thing). Eggnog, one of the other techs, was particularly good with the NT server and the windows boxes. One day, he brought his satanic bible (no joke. Black cover, big upside-down pentagram, looked like it came out of a Quake map). I saw it and became enlightened. Jeff -- From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 13 15:57:43 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:57:43 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops. In-Reply-To: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> Message-ID: <20051213235743.GM7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alan (ajd at adavies.net): > I've been looking for a group of people that meet on a regular basis in > the bay area dealing with corporate Microsoft systems. I'm a help desk > manager that's looking to share and develop new ideas particulary around > MS desktop/laptop OS's. If you know of such a group please let me know. Just to confuse everyone, here's a serious answer: You might try SFNTUG, http://www.sfntug.org/ . It's a predominently Microsoft-centric user group in San Francisco (and some other cities), run by a guy named Doug Spindler. I've never been to one of their meetings, but Doug at least seems a very active and intelligent guy. The "SFNTUG" moniker _lately_ has been considered to stand for "San Francisco Networking Technologies Users Group", as part of their effort to branch out beyond, well, NT. "NT" used to stand for that other thing. Looks like their flagship San Francisco branch meets first Tuesday, evenings. Personally, I would rather spend my own valuable volunteer time dealing with open source, and that users of legacy proprietary operating systems are best referred to paid technical support (http://zgp.org/~dmarti/linuxmanship/#enabler), but it's your spare time to spend, in this case. From togo at of.net Tue Dec 13 21:45:24 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:45:24 -0800 Subject: being a sharecropper in your own mind [Re: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops.] In-Reply-To: References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20051214054524.GA8646@of.net> According to Deirdre Saoirse Moen, > > On Dec 13, 2005, at 1:53 PM, Mark S Bilk wrote: > > >Sounds like you want the Church of Satan, but I don't know > >if they have a branch around here. > > I was just gonna say "Good luck with that" but that *that* sounded > too snarky. ... > Personally, I would rather spend my own valuable volunteer > time dealing with open source, and that users of legacy proprietary > operating systems are best referred to paid technical support > (http://zgp.org/~dmarti/linuxmanship/#enabler), but it's your spare time > to spend, in this case. What's the famous quote about how developing an expertise in proprietary technology is akin to being a sharecropper in your own mind? A quick google search found me a nice geek discussion of it here... http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/13/1557256&mode=thread&tid=185 ...and it apparently came from this nice rant... http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace ...and the original observation by Robb Beal about coding for the Apple OS... http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/06/06/DC-Day4 From togo at of.net Tue Dec 13 21:51:02 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 21:51:02 -0800 Subject: being a sharecropper in your own mind [Re: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops.] In-Reply-To: <20051214054524.GA8646@of.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> <20051214054524.GA8646@of.net> Message-ID: <20051214055102.GA11438@of.net> Attribution correction and additional comment... > According to Tony Godshall, > > According to Deirdre Saoirse Moen, > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2005, at 1:53 PM, Mark S Bilk wrote: > > > > > > >Sounds like you want the Church of Satan, but I don't know > > > >if they have a branch around here. [Diedre] > > > I was just gonna say "Good luck with that" but that *that* sounded > > > too snarky. I love snarky! Doesn't everyone? My favorite news program has become Countdown with Keith Olberman on MSNBC. [Rick] > > Personally, I would rather spend my own valuable volunteer > > time dealing with open source, and that users of legacy proprietary > > operating systems are best referred to paid technical support > > (http://zgp.org/~dmarti/linuxmanship/#enabler), but it's your spare time > > to spend, in this case. Oh, wait. I went and read Don Marti's article. Further down he makes it clear that everyone does *not* love snarky. Particularly it seems those who've made other choices. I guess flame is snarky carried too far. > What's the famous quote about how developing an expertise in > proprietary technology is akin to being a sharecropper in > your own mind? > > A quick google search found me a nice geek discussion of it here... > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/13/1557256&mode=thread&tid=185 > > ...and it apparently came from this nice rant... > > http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace > > ...and the original observation by Robb Beal about coding > for the Apple OS... > > http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/06/06/DC-Day4 > > -- Best Regards, Tony From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Dec 14 02:10:00 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:10:00 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Lupper redux Message-ID: <20051214100959.GN20384@linuxmafia.com> Since http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus#virus5 aspires to document all Linux malware, I've just caught up regarding the Lupper worm: NAME: Lupper (Lupii, Plupii) APPEARED: Nov. 11, 2005. VULNERABLE: PHPXMLRPC messaging library v. 1.1.1, via URL input validation bug enabling execution of arbitrary PHP. Fixed Aug. 8, 2005. VULNERABLE: AWstats Web-statistics Perl CGI script, v. 6.3, via a URL input validation bug. Fixed June 10, 2005. VULNERABLE: Darryl C. Burgdorf's WebHints proprietary "thought for the day" Perl CGI script, v. 1.02, has _zero_ URL input validation, a design failure publicised May 9, 2005. (References to v. 1.03 and 1.3 are in error.) VULNERABLE: Jimmy's "The Includer" proprietary SSI-emulation Perl CGI script v. 1.1, has _zero_ URL input validation, a design failure publicised March 3, 2005. This worm -- exploiting vulnerabilities already fixed or eliminated for three, five, six, and eight months, respectively -- derived from the earlier Slapper worm codebase. Thus far, it exists only as an i386 Linux binary, fetched to target Web servers' /tmp directory by one of the four obsolete, vulnerable Web apps, and then run as httpd. One of those exploits (against PHPXMLRPC) would work equally well (after recompiling the worm) on any operating system. The others invoke Bourne-like shells (and thus are feasible on any Unix, but on MS-Windows only with Cygwin, etc.). The AWstats exploit also calls wget, via buggily-parsed URL input of the form "configdir=|program". The Includer and WebHints CGIs' failures to validate input are total: URLs "http://www.example.com/hints.pl?|program|", "http://www.example.com/includer.cgi?|program|", and "http://www.example.com/includer.cgi?template=|program|" all remotely execute "program". However, it's important to note that _neither is packaged_ by Linux istributions: Either would have to be downloaded and installed manually by an admin of uncommonly bad judgement. The AWstats CGI, by contrast, is sometimes packaged but never to the best of my ability to tell installed by default, in any Linux distribution: It has historically been notorious for input validation flaws, and thus is best run in its optional configuration that generates static HTML pages (http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/85) , rather than its default CGI mode. PHPXMLRPC is usually offered via optional, supplemental PHP-add-ons packages but is never to the best of my ability to tell installed by default, in any Linux distribution. Like the related and identically vulnerable (fixed the same day, but not attacked so far by this worm) PEAR XML-RPC v. 1.3.3 messaging library, it would probably get installed as part of overfeatured, developed PHP-based Web applications such as Ampache, b2evolution, egroupware, MailWatch for MailScanner, Nucleus CMS, phpmyfaq, phpPgAds, phpgroupware, PostNuke, TikiWiki, and Xaraya; plus older versions of Civicspace and Drupal. (The two PHP-coded XML-RPC implementations should not be confused with PHP's optional xmlrpc-epi extension, in C, included with PHP since v. 4.10, or various other non-PHP implementations.) One lesson that's common to all of those exploits is that Linux Web-server admins need to be extra careful of applications that will process public data, e.g., via URL input, and doubly careful (lest they miss needed fixes) of any they choose to install outside their distributions' regular maintenance regimes. As it happens, the worm requires rather rare (not to mention old) Web-app vulnerabilties, and extremely few systems have been reported affected. ("Affected" means that the attacker can compromise the httpd process but not the Web host as a whole, without some separate and more serious method to compromise the machine.) From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Dec 14 09:12:32 2005 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:12:32 -0800 Subject: being a sharecropper in your own mind [Re: [conspire] Off Topic: Looking for a Bay Area group that supports Microsoft desktop/laptops.] In-Reply-To: <20051214055102.GA11438@of.net> References: <439F1F09.50308@adavies.net> <20051213215352.GB9558@linux.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> <20051214054524.GA8646@of.net> <20051214055102.GA11438@of.net> Message-ID: <20051214171232.GA22358@zgp.org> begin Tony Godshall quotation of Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 09:51:02PM -0800: > Oh, wait. I went and read Don Marti's article. Further > down he makes it clear that everyone does *not* love snarky. > Particularly it seems those who've made other choices. I > guess flame is snarky carried too far. I'm going to quote the great Dr. Phil here. "When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences." When a user clicks "OK" on that proprietary EULA, he or she is choosing to leave the normal human world -- free markets, academic freedom, and all our "kindergarten values" such as sharing and taking turns -- for the dismal, authoritarian, micromanaged EULA-land, where information cannot change hands except under the watchful eyes of the EULA. I'm for making the inhabitants of EULA-land play by their own chosen rules, and not sneaking in to prop up their broken system. I won't be impolite about it, but it's not like the EULA-landers are North Koreans being starved out by their broken top-down system -- they just have computer problems, and they won't get shot at for going over the wire. (hint: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/) > > ...and the original observation by Robb Beal about coding > > for the Apple OS... > > > > http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/06/06/DC-Day4 I said something like that about the Be and Amiga platforms in 1999. http://lists.svlug.org/pipermail/svlug/1999-October/020620.html Just in case you feel like thinking about this kind of stuff, here's some (pre-Sony spyware) thinking out loud -- with links to Seth Schoen, Karsten Self, and Jakob Nielsen -- that leads toward, but doesn't quite pin down, the idea that the spyware problem and the proprietary software problem are the same problem. http://zgp.org/~dmarti/blosxom/freedom/user-education.html -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ dmarti at zgp.org From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Wed Dec 14 17:16:49 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 17:16:49 -0800 Subject: [conspire] penlug DNS seems to be down... References: <1851b6c80512101938g5b3a620se7f6da7df32ad641@mail.gmail.com> <20051212092902.GB7646@linuxmafia.com> <1851b6c80512121337x7eb730b8jf4bd65fecf12f721@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Have you ever, when hearing about somebody doing something stupid and then facing the consequences, been glad it wasn't you, while at the same time, doing the exact same stupid thing? My SOA record has ns1.granitecanyon.com as my primary DNS server. My registrar had that in their records, along with ns1.zoneedit.com and ns3.zoneedit.com, which I had set up to get the zonefile from ns1.granitecanyon.com. At some point I added a fourth NS record to my zonefile for ns2.granitecanyon.com, but neglected to contact my registrar. That wasn't causing any problems -- or so it seemed. This week, I attempted to send an e-mail message to a bug number at bugs.debian.org, and it bounced with a 451 error. I tried to resend the following day, and this time it was silently discarded without even a bounce message. When I googled the Debian mailing lists for 451 errors from bugs.debian.org, I came across an incident where someone who had a debian.org e-mail address, and also an address at their own domain, had set up his zonefile in a way that was somehow interfering with the exim configuration on the master.debian.org server. This left me wondering "What if master.debian.org is the MX record for bugs.debian.org?" The first thing I did then was go to http://www.dnsstuff.com in order to see whether they had some no-fuss MX record lookup tool, but a link on their front page immediately caught my eye that I never noticed before: http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/my-ip-address.ch I decided to click it. Then my blissful obliviousness came to an end. I was shocked and awed by the sight of the "Reverse DNS authenticity" line telling me that my domain would not resolve. In a panic, I went ahead and got the full DNS report on myself, and it became clear what had happened: Some time ago, ns1.granitecanyon.com stopped responding. Eventually, the SOA EXPIRE value had elapsed, and the ZoneEdit servers tried to get my zonefile again. After being unable to do so, rather than report stale data, they started making referrals. This left ns2.granitecanyon.com as the only authoritative nameserver that would give a valid response, but nobody was checking that one because it wasn't listed at my registrar, despite my NS record. The last time I dealt with my registrar, they said I should e-mail them instead of calling, but this time I was luckily able to get them on the phone quickly by referencing an e-mail support ticket number from three and a half years ago. They said they'd add the extra nameserver within the hour, and if I needed anything else, I could call back and reference that same ticket number. It took considerably longer than that for their authoritative parent servers to reflect the change, but I didn't wait for that. I told the ZoneEdit servers to get their information from ns2.granitecanyon.com instead of ns1, and shortly thereafter, ns1.zoneedit.com was making my domain resolve again. As soon as I saw that, I resent that old e-mail through bugs.debian.org, and it went through. Unfortunately, I am now getting the feeling that I am lapsing back into blissful obliviousness to my DNS situation, so expect more such foolishness from me in the future. On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:10:37 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Peter Knaggs (peter.knaggs at gmail.com): > >> Wow, thanks for your explanation. > > No problem. Since I'm on an "explain DNS" kick, I may do at least one > follow-up to my December 2005 "The Basics of DNS" article in _Linux Gazette_, > attempting to cover such matters. In that article, you may have > noticed, I explained about the four flavours of DNS service, explained > the first three & showed that they were dead simple, and mostly punted > on the fourth one, primary authoritative service. Which is of course > what we're talking about, now. > >> So when you hinted about offering to do >> secondary DNS, would that mean we'd need >> to get the .org nameserver to add an NS entry >> for ns1.linuxmafia.org (and a glue record for >> ns1.linuxmafia.org pointing it to the real >> ns1.linuxmafia.com)? Sounds complicated :) > > There's a simple way, and there's a slightly more complex but better > way. > > The simple way is just add an "NS" record for ns1.linuxmafia.com. Boom, > done. You would have to add that to both the penlug.org zonefile and > in the domain records at the registrar. (The one aspect of primary > authoritative DNS that people most often get wrong is failing to update > records at the registrar when they change nameservers' NS or A records > in their zonefiles.) > > The more-complex way is to first add NS and A records in penlug.org's > zonefile for new hostname "ns4.penlug.org", with the A record pointing > to ns1.linuxmafia.com's IP. Then -- per usual -- do the same in records > at the registrar. Again, boom, done. > > In either case, someone would also have to adjust the master > nameserver's security controls (ACLs) to let my IP pull down the zonefile > from it. > > But that's really all that's required. Everything else is automatic, > and I would neither have nor want any involvement in the actual contents > of penlug.org's DNS, that being controlled 100% at the master > nameserver, which according to the zonefile is "a.ns.joker.com". The > only difference is, PenLUG would have greater redundancy. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Dec 14 18:04:50 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 18:04:50 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Another DNS trick: Making domains go away Message-ID: <20051215020449.GD9804@linuxmafia.com> One of the invited talks at the 2005 LISA conference was "Internet Counter-Intelligence: Offense and Defense", by Lance Cottrell, head of Anonymizer, Inc. In part, he detailed what one might term just how low Internet-using companies tend to go, in their manipulation of their customers through technical means. Jim Dennis, who was attending with me, also found the talk very worthwhile and technically valuable, but mentioned as we left that his biggest reaction was one of irritation -- not at Cottrell, but rather at Internet businesses. Cottrell went into a fair amount of detail about how a surprisingly high percentage of firms deploy user-tracking and IP-geolocation services to ensure their ability to set differential pricing. In part, that means offering lower prices in some places than others: He gave the example of a real-life purchase of some expensive computer gear that the same firm offered at _twice_ the price to people browsing from European IP addresses than to those coming from American IPs. Mostly, though, the firms work really hard to ensure that competitive, attractive pricing is offered _only_ to newer customers, and that they gradually (but invisibly) jack up greatly the prices offered to you once you're an established customer. He commented: Forget about rewarding customer loyalty. The opposite is the general rule. There's some danger that you, reading this, might think the syndrome occurs with companies some _other_ people deal with, in part because I can't remember many of the numerou everyday company names he cited: I remember that Amazon.com and Barnes & Noble were among them, and many others -- and we're not talking trivial price differences, either. To Cottrell's credit, he didn't present this talk primarily as a sale pitch for Anonymizer's proxying service, that among other things completely hides your network location. But because of his experience with that project, his analysis was fully credible. On the drive back from LISA, aspects of Cottrell's talk (of which there were others, such as IP-blocking and forging for political and business reasons, information leakage, and the uses of those data in competitive business intelligence efforts) kept colliding in my head with a longstanding project of mine: Many, many years ago, I started wanting for various reasons to want to make particular hostnames, domains, and IP addresses evaporate from my experience of the Internet. Among the first Internet entities to annoy me to that extent was Doubleclick.net (now owned by Microsoft Corporation). Around the 1980s, something they were doing annoyed me enough that they were the first crash-test dummy for my "make things go away" project. At first, this was in /etc/hosts and similar static-lookup files, which on account of some obvious drawbacks didn't work too well: 127.0.0.2 ad.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.3 missed-me.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.4 another-one.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.5 tom.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.6 dick.doubleclick.net 127.0.0.7 harry.doubleclick.net This sort of thing made a huge number of banner ads (etc.) go away, by mapping their hostnames to my loopback network interface, but the supply of new hostnames was endless, plus it helped only that one machine (that had the /etc/hosts file), plus it didn't catch traffic fetched by IP address. The more-comprehensive solution (including catching references by IP) was something elaborate like Junkbuster, but I wanted to see if there was an easy 95% solution. Pretty soon, I remembered: "Oh, wait! I run a DNS nameserver." Which provided an easy way to make all of *.doubleclick.net go bye-bye, in one easy step, inside /etc/bind/named.conf.local: //doubleclick.net must die. Internet advertisers (DoubleClick, Inc.). zone "doubleclick.net" { type master; allow-query { any; }; file "/etc/bind/advertisers.zone"; }; Even if you never create /etc/bind/advertisers.zone at all, it still works because you've said "Pay no attention to any other nameserver's information about Doubleclick.net hostnames: I know all." But here's the advertisers.zone file I created, anyway: $TTL 86400 ;Generic make-advertisers-go-away zonefile. Put YOUR IP address in the ;A line, and YOUR nameserver name in the NS line. @ IN SOA ns1.linuxmafia.COM. rick.deirdre.NET. ( 2005112300 ; serial 7200 ; refresh 3 hours 3600 ; retry 1 hour 2419200 ; expire 1000 hours 86400 ; minimum 24 hours ) ; IN NS ns1.linuxmafia.com. * IN A 198.144.195.186 The wildcard "A" line resolves *.doubleclick.net to my hostname. You could of course map it to somewhere else creative, or whatever you wish. The point is, _no_ call to those hostnames to pick up a cookie, a banner ad, a "Web bug" (or "beacon") 1x1 pixel GIF, or anything else is going to get out to those bloodsuckers. Effectively, they get summarily and completely vanished. Over the years since the '80s, occasionally one of those firms would come to my attention with some "cute" variation on Doubleclick.net's advertising-blitz-and-spy-on-users business model, and get dropped into the same oubliette. "yimg.com" (Yahoo Images) was an early addition. You learn some of the euphemisms as you go along: Some of the firms sell "market intelligence", "research", "Web metrics", "dynamic personal messages", "measured response", "targeted promotions", and so on. Now, I certainly can't spend significant time on this stuff: I don't have that time to waste. However, I'm occasionally willing to devote a little on a high-bang-for-the-buck basis, especially if I can "bottle" what progress I've made, and offer it up to others. Thus this posting: As I've found domains used entirely or almost entirely for the more scummy sorts of Internet-spying and advertising activities, I've been declaring my nameserver "authoritative" for them in exactly the way shown above for doubleclick.net -- which means they get included in my prototype BIND9 example files, that I publish for the public's benefit. If you want to see the whole set, in a format that can be dropped effortlessly into BIND8/BIND9 nameserver configurations, download http://linuxmafia.com/pub/linux/network/bind9-examples-linuxmafia.tar.gz Following is the comments lines (only) from the "make domains go away" section of /etc/bind/named.conf.local : //Domains Killed Dirt Cheap: //(advertising and similar domains mapped via local DNS to nowhere at all) //"2o7.com" issues traffic-tracking cookies (run by Omniture, Inc.). //"360i.com" are Internet advertisers (360 Integrated, run by 360i LLC.). //"3dstats.com" are Web-bug advertisers (ImagineNET Company) //"ad-up.com" are Internet advertisers and sell e-mail address lists // (Ad-Up Corporation). //"adbot.com" were big Internet advertisers, but went broke and are now // probably harmless: Owned by Cameron Gregory, Web/Java developer. //"adjuggler.com" are Internet advertisers (Thruport Technologies, Inc.). //"adknowledge.com" are Web-bug advertisers (Adknowledge, Inc.). //"adlegend.com" are Web-bug advertisers (run by TruEffect, Inc.). //"adrevolver.com" are Web-bug advertisers (run by BlueLithium, Inc.). //"adriver.ru" are Internet advertisers //"adserver.com" are Internet advertisers (Fastclick, Inc.). //"adsmart.com" are Internet advertisers (run by Web holding company CMGI). //"adtech.de" are Internet advertisers (ADTECH AG). //"alexa.com" are Internet advertisers (Alexa Internet, Inc.) //"advertising.com" are Web-bug advertisers (Advertising.com, Inc.). //"apmebf.com" are Web-bug advertisers (part of ValueClick, Inc.). //"atdmt.com" issue traffic-tracking cookies (part of Atlas, // division of aQuantive, Inc.). //"atlas.cz" are Czech-language Internet advertisers (ATLAS.CZ, a.s.). //"atwola.com" are Web-bug advertisers (part of AOL, Inc.). //"belnk.com" are Internet advertisers (BehaviorLink, in Claria's Vista //division). //"bfast.com" are Internet advertisers (part of ValueClick, Inc.) //"bizrate.com" are Internet advertisers (Shopzilla, Inc.). //"blm.net" are Internet advertisers (BrowserMedia, LLC). //"bluelithium.com" are Internet advertisers (BlueLithium, Inc.). //"bluestreak.com" are Internet advertisers (Bluestreak, Inc.). //"bravenet.com" issue traffic-tracking cookies (Bravenet Web Services Inc.). //"burstnet.com" are Internet advertisers (Burst Media LLC). //"burstbeacon.com" are Internet advertisers (Burst Media LLC). //"casalemedia.com" are Internet advertisers (Casale Media, Inc.). //"centrport.net" are Internet advertisers (CentrPort, Inc.). //"checkm8.com" are Internet advertisers (Checkm8 Technologies, Inc.) //"clickability.com" are Internet advertisers (Clickability, Inc.) //"clicktracks.com" issue traffic-tracking cookies (ClickTracks Analytics Inc.) //"clickz.com" issue traffic-tracking cookies (Incisive Interactive Marketing, //LLC). //"cnnaudience.com" are Internet advertisers (Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.) //"contextweb.com" are Internet advertisers (ContextWeb, Inc.). //"coremetrics.com" are Internet advertisers (Coremetrics, Inc.). //"criticalmass.com" are Internet advertisers (Critical Mass, part of // Omnicom Group, Inc.). //"did-it.com" are Internet advertisers (Did-it.com, LLC). //"dogpile.com" are Internet advertisers run by infospace.com (InfoSpace, Inc.). //"domainsponsor.com" are Internet advertisers (Oversee.net) //doubleclick.net must die. Internet advertisers (DoubleClick, Inc.). //"esomniture.com" are Web-bug publishers (Omniture, Inc.). //"falkag.net" are Internet advertisers (Falk eSolutions AG). //"fastclick.com" are Internet advertisers (Fastclick, Inc.). //"fastclick.net" are Internet advertisers (Fastclick, Inc.). //"focalink.com" are Internet advertisers (Focalink Communications). //"gemius.pl" issue traffic-tracking cookies (Gemius S.A.) //"gureport.co.uk" issue traffic-tracking cookies (Guardian Newspapers, Ltd.) //"hitbox.com" are Web-bug publishers (WebSideStory, Inc.). //"hitslink.com" are Web-bug publishers (Net Applications, Inc.). //"hitsprocessor.com" are Web-bug publishers (Net Applications, Inc.). //"humanclick.com" are Internet advertisers (LivePerson, Inc.). //"imrworldwide.com" are Internet advertisers (NetRatings, Inc., in //collaboration with AC Nielsen and Nielsen Media Research). //"indextools.com" are Internet advertisers (IndexTools, Inc.) //"information.com" are Internet advertisers (Oversee.net) //"infospace.com" serve up ads from ads.infospace.com (InfoSpace, Inc.). //"insightexpressai.com" are Internet advertisers (InsightExpress, LLC). //"itadnetwork.co.uk" are Internet advertisers (Net Communities Limited) //"kanoodle.com" are Internet advertisers (Kanoodle.com, Inc.). //"linkexchange.com" come across as sleazemeisters. Advertisers dealing // in questionable page-rank deals (Microsoft Corporation). //"liveperson.com" are Internet advertisers (LivePerson. Inc.). //"liveperson.net" are Internet advertisers (LivePerson. Inc.). //"maxserving.com" are Internet advertisers (Ask Jeeves, Inc.). //"medialand.ru" are Internet advertisers (Medialand.Ru, Ltd.). //"mediaplex.com" are Internet advertisers (Mediaplex, Inc.). //"myaffiliateprogram.com" are Internet advertisers (KowaBunga Technologies, // part of Think Partnership Inc. / CGI Holding Corporation) //"nbcupromotes.com" are Internet advertisers (NBC/Universal Promotions). //"netservice.de" are German-language Internet advertisers. //"nozonedata.com" are Internet advertisers (NoZone, Inc.). //"nytdigital.com" are Internet advertisers (The New York Times Company) //"omniture.com" are Web-bug advertisers (Omniture, Inc., the people // who run 2o7.com). //"onestat.com" are a Dutch traffic-tracking company. //"optimost.com" are Internet advertisers (Optimost LLC) //"poindextersystems.com" are Internet advertisers (Poindexter Systems, Inc.) //"pointroll.com" are Web-bug advertisers (run by Gannett Company, Inc.). //"preferences.com" appear to serve up ads from ads.preferences.com // (RHCDirect LLC). //"questionmarket.com" issue traffic-tracking cookies (Dynamic Logic). //"realmedia.com" are Internet advertisers (24/7 Real Media, Inc.) //"remoteapproach.com" collect spy-on-users data from Acrobat 7.x // and later for the benefit of Adobe Systems, Inc. //"revenue.net" are Internet advertisers (Oversee.net) //"revsci.net" are Internet advertisers (Revenue Science, Inc.) //"riddler.com" advertise from various subdomains (Riddler LLC). //"rightmedia.com" are Web-bug advertisers (the people who run yieldmanager.com, // Right Media, LLC). //"ru4.com" are Web-bug advertisers (Pointdexter Systems). //"sageanalyst.net" are Internet advertisers (sbasoft, Inc./SageMetrics Corp.). //"seeq.com" are Internet advertisers (BrowserMedia, LLC). //"serving-sys.com" are Internet advertisers (Ilissos). //"sitestat.com" issues traffic-tracking cookies (Nedstat BV) //"smartadserver.com" are Internet advertisers (auFeminin.com SA). //"specificclick.com" are Web-bug advertisers (SpecificCLICK). //"specificclick.net" are Web-bug advertisers (SpecificCLICK). //"spylog.com" issue traffic-tracking cookies (OOO Spylog) //"statcounter.com" issues traffic-tracking cookies (Aodhan Cullen of Dublin). //"tacoda.com" are Internet advertisers (TACODA Systems, Inc.). //"techbuyer.com" are Web-bug advertisers (YesDirect, Inc.) //"techtarget.com" are Internet advertisers (TechTarget, Inc.). //"trafficmp.com" are Internet advertisers (Vendare Group, Inc.) //"tribalfusion.com" are Internet advertisers (Tribal Fusion, Inc.) //"trueffect.com" are Web-bug advertisers (TruEffect, Inc. the people // who run adlegend.com). //"ultramercial.com" are Internet advertisers (Ultramercial, LLC). //"valueclick.com" serve up ads from oz.valueclick.com (ValueClick, Inc.). //"valueclick.net" are Internet advertisers (ValueClick, Inc.). //"webads.nl" are Internet advertisers (Webads Europe) //"webstats4u.com" are Web-bug publishers (Web Measurement Servicews B.V.). //"webtrendslive.com" are Web-bug advertisers (WebTrends, Inc.). //"wiredminds.com" are Internet advertisers (WiredMinds, Inc.). //"wiredminds.de" are Internet advertisers (WiredMinds AG). //"yadro.ru" are Internet advertisers //"yieldmanager.com" are Web-bug advertisers (run by RightMedia, Inc). //yimg.com must die, too; same reasons as for Doubleclick (Yahoo, Inc.). //"zedo.com" are Internet advertisers (ZEDO, Inc.). (Those characterisations aren't very exact, so don't take them as gospel. I looked at each domain's known activity just long enough to class them as "Should be made to go away", and wrote a quick guess at what each one seemed to be mostly about.) One neat thing is: _Any_ DNS-client machine that uses your nameserver will be under your umbrella. Their processes, like yours, will have those same bloodsucker domains globally mapped to oblivion. This can be a two-edged sword, given contrary-minded local users: My mother-in-law Cheryl, who lives with us and initially had her workstations set up to use my nameserver, kept coming to me and complaining that she was being blocked from reaching desirable content by my proxy. I explained I had no proxy. She continued to complain, and was certain it was my fault. It occurred to me that I had mapped *.doubleclick.net hostnames to nowhere -- but I stressed that there was _nothing_ but undesirable crudware ever retrieved from those URLs, and she really shouldn't want to have that rubbish back. She continued to complain: My nameserver was generating "broken links", so obviously I must be depriving her of stuff she wants. She knew that those those links weren't broken anywhere except from home, so obviously I was impairing her Internet experience. I looked: Indeed, there were 404s being generated (because of the particular variety of oblivion I was then mapping the domain to). Every one of those 404s was objectively undesirable junk. She complained. I stressed that I wasn't filtering her Internet traffic, just resolving certain domains locally. If she didn't like my nameserver policy, she was welcome to use any of millions of others, or run her own. She complained. I reiterated that her shortage of banner ads, Web bugs, and spy cookies wasn't my problem. She complained. I sat down at her machine and repointed them to Raw Bandwidth's nameservers. Moral: No good deed goes unpunished. It would be nice if Deirdre had the house Apple Airport base station referencing my nameserver IP (only) for the DNS IP that it passes to DHCP clients. However, I'm betting it doesn't. Crying shame, that. http://linuxmafia.com/pub/linux/network/bind9-examples-linuxmafia.tar.gz has one other special feature: a file called "maps-lawsuits". Many years ago, I managed to make the day of Paul Vixie, DNS expert and founder of the anti-spam MAPS Project, Inc., at the end of one of his lectures at BayLISA: I told him that, the day Yesmail, Inc. got a temporary restraining order against MAPS for announcing an intention to put Yesmail's IPs in its DNS blocklist (alleging tortious interference in Yesmail's business affairs), I sent an e-mail to several high executives at Yesmail and its entire sales department: Paul Vixie and MAPSs, I said, would eventually get around to forgiving them for their actions. By contrast, I pointed out, they'd just managed to piss off just about every sysadmin in the world, and the oceans would dry up, the sun would burn out, and the universe would suffer heat death before _they_ would either forgive or forget. Therefore, I said, I predicted a long eternity of their IP addresses gracing a large number of sysadmins' null-route lists, and hoped they considered the sacrifice worthwhile. The "maps-lawsuits" file details each of the five firms that sued MAPS on what in my view were specious and disreputable grounds -- including, in some cases, who owns those firms now. I hope to add specific IP address lists, soon. Being mindful of the restraint-of-trade statutes, I certainly won't tell anyone _else_ to null-route those firms' IP addresses. You could, for example, send them Christmas cards. Let your conscience be your guide. From hereon1 at fastmail.us Wed Dec 14 21:05:33 2005 From: hereon1 at fastmail.us (Hereon) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 21:05:33 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl Message-ID: <1134623133.29164.249841331@webmail.messagingengine.com> Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl for linux unix Thanks to Bill & Sam. Useful for fixing .html files saved by Mozilla firefox. I sometimes copy the title of an article and paste it to the save dialog box of Mozilla firefox. Sometimes this contains a newline character that I don't notice. K3b cd writing backup fails on the filenames containing newlines. Place the script below in a text editor & save it in /usr/local/bin as FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl chmod 755 FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl Go to the top of the directory tree you wish to search & replace. Run the program FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl Running it with no options lists filnames which contain newline characters. Run it with the "-r" option to actually change the file names. ===================================================================== #!/usr/bin/perl -w # # Usage: FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl [-r] # Recursively finds all files and directories with newline characters in their name # and optionally renames them to have spaces instead. By default, files are not renamed; # the files that would be effected are listed on stdout. If invoked with the -r option, # the files are renamed. # use File::Find; # Recursively visits every file in a list of directories use Cwd; # for returning the current directory with getcwd(). use strict; no warnings 'File::Find'; $::DO_RENAME = $ARGV[0] eq "-r"; # Is true if user wants to actually rename the file my @dir; push( @dir, getcwd() ); # Start in the current directory find( \&RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename , @dir ); ## # Replace all files with \n in them with spaces sub RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename { # If the filename (that Find::File::find() puts in $_ and in $File::Find::name) # contains a Newline character (\n, i.e. hex 0A ASCII 11 entered as ^V^J), # replace it with a simple space character. # If the current filename contains the undesired control character, if( m/[\n]/ ) { # m/pattern/ does a regex match of `pattern' against the $_ variable # Create string for user display that shows "/r"'s in the file name. my $old_filename = $File::Find::name; my $old_display_name = $old_filename; # show the old filename on a single line $old_display_name =~ s/[\n]/\\n/g; # Put "\n" in the output to see. s/[\n]/ /g; # s/old/new/ replaces `old' pattern with `new' value in the $_ variable # Show user the file name. print $::DO_RENAME ? "Renaming " : ""; # Say "Renaming" if '-r' option print "$old_display_name\n"; print $::DO_RENAME ? "To ===== $_\n" : ""; # Show new file name if renaming # We only rename files if the script is invoked with the -r option if( $::DO_RENAME ) { rename( $old_filename, $_ ) or die "Couldn't rename $old_display_name to $_: $!"; } } 1; # Return 1 just in case. } -- Hereon hereon1 at fastmail.us -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different From togo at of.net Wed Dec 14 23:53:33 2005 From: togo at of.net (Tony Godshall) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:53:33 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl In-Reply-To: <1134623133.29164.249841331@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1134623133.29164.249841331@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20051215075333.GA22180@of.net> How about this? find . -type f \ | perl -ne '\ chomp; my $oldname=$_; while(s{^(.*)[\r\n]+(.*)$}{$1$2}}) { } if ( $oldname == $_ ) { rename($orig,$_); } } ' A little less complicated. And easily adapted for other purposes (I use something like this for cleaning up mp3 filenames before dumping them to my iriver). According to Hereon, > Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl for linux unix > > Thanks to Bill & Sam. > > Useful for fixing .html files saved by Mozilla firefox. > > I sometimes copy the title of an article and paste it to the save dialog box of Mozilla firefox. > Sometimes this contains a newline character that I don't notice. > K3b cd writing backup fails on the filenames containing newlines. > > Place the script below in a text editor & save it in /usr/local/bin > as FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > chmod 755 FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > Go to the top of the directory tree you wish to search & replace. > > Run the program > FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > Running it with no options lists filnames which contain newline characters. > Run it with the "-r" option to actually change the file names. > > > ===================================================================== > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > # > # Usage: FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl [-r] > # Recursively finds all files and directories with newline characters in their name > # and optionally renames them to have spaces instead. By default, files are not renamed; > # the files that would be effected are listed on stdout. If invoked with the -r option, > # the files are renamed. > # > use File::Find; # Recursively visits every file in a list of directories > use Cwd; # for returning the current directory with getcwd(). > use strict; > no warnings 'File::Find'; > > $::DO_RENAME = $ARGV[0] eq "-r"; # Is true if user wants to actually rename the file > > my @dir; > push( @dir, getcwd() ); # Start in the current directory > find( \&RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename , @dir ); > > ## > # Replace all files with \n in them with spaces > > sub RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename { > > # If the filename (that Find::File::find() puts in $_ and in $File::Find::name) > # contains a Newline character (\n, i.e. hex 0A ASCII 11 entered as ^V^J), > # replace it with a simple space character. > > # If the current filename contains the undesired control character, > if( m/[\n]/ ) { # m/pattern/ does a regex match of `pattern' against the $_ variable > > # Create string for user display that shows "/r"'s in the file name. > my $old_filename = $File::Find::name; > my $old_display_name = $old_filename; # show the old filename on a single line > $old_display_name =~ s/[\n]/\\n/g; # Put "\n" in the output to see. > s/[\n]/ /g; # s/old/new/ replaces `old' pattern with `new' value in the $_ variable > > # Show user the file name. > print $::DO_RENAME ? "Renaming " : ""; # Say "Renaming" if '-r' option > print "$old_display_name\n"; > print $::DO_RENAME ? "To ===== $_\n" : ""; # Show new file name if renaming > > # We only rename files if the script is invoked with the -r option > if( $::DO_RENAME ) { > rename( $old_filename, $_ ) or die "Couldn't rename $old_display_name to $_: $!"; > } > } > 1; # Return 1 just in case. > } > -- > Hereon > hereon1 at fastmail.us > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different? > > > _______________________________________________ > conspire mailing list > conspire at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire -- Best Regards, Tony From bill at wards.net Wed Dec 14 23:56:52 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:56:52 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl In-Reply-To: <20051215075333.GA22180@of.net> References: <1134623133.29164.249841331@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20051215075333.GA22180@of.net> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512142356w127c1703wfb4a277b0f6ad05b@mail.gmail.com> I'd add 'warn "$orig: $!" ' to your rename() but otherwise, looks good. On 12/14/05, Tony Godshall wrote: > > How about this? > > find . -type f \ > | perl -ne '\ > chomp; > my $oldname=$_; > while(s{^(.*)[\r\n]+(.*)$}{$1$2}}) { } > if ( $oldname == $_ ) { rename($orig,$_); } > } > ' > > A little less complicated. And easily adapted for other > purposes (I use something like this for cleaning up mp3 > filenames before dumping them to my iriver). > > According to Hereon, > > Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl for linux unix > > > > Thanks to Bill & Sam. > > > > Useful for fixing .html files saved by Mozilla firefox. > > > > I sometimes copy the title of an article and paste it to the save dialog box of Mozilla firefox. > > Sometimes this contains a newline character that I don't notice. > > K3b cd writing backup fails on the filenames containing newlines. > > > > Place the script below in a text editor & save it in /usr/local/bin > > as FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > chmod 755 FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > Go to the top of the directory tree you wish to search & replace. > > > > Run the program > > FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > > > Running it with no options lists filnames which contain newline characters. > > Run it with the "-r" option to actually change the file names. > > > > > > ===================================================================== > > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > > # > > # Usage: FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl [-r] > > # Recursively finds all files and directories with newline characters in their name > > # and optionally renames them to have spaces instead. By default, files are not renamed; > > # the files that would be effected are listed on stdout. If invoked with the -r option, > > # the files are renamed. > > # > > use File::Find; # Recursively visits every file in a list of directories > > use Cwd; # for returning the current directory with getcwd(). > > use strict; > > no warnings 'File::Find'; > > > > $::DO_RENAME = $ARGV[0] eq "-r"; # Is true if user wants to actually rename the file > > > > my @dir; > > push( @dir, getcwd() ); # Start in the current directory > > find( \&RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename , @dir ); > > > > ## > > # Replace all files with \n in them with spaces > > > > sub RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename { > > > > # If the filename (that Find::File::find() puts in $_ and in $File::Find::name) > > # contains a Newline character (\n, i.e. hex 0A ASCII 11 entered as ^V^J), > > # replace it with a simple space character. > > > > # If the current filename contains the undesired control character, > > if( m/[\n]/ ) { # m/pattern/ does a regex match of `pattern' against the $_ variable > > > > # Create string for user display that shows "/r"'s in the file name. > > my $old_filename = $File::Find::name; > > my $old_display_name = $old_filename; # show the old filename on a single line > > $old_display_name =~ s/[\n]/\\n/g; # Put "\n" in the output to see. > > s/[\n]/ /g; # s/old/new/ replaces `old' pattern with `new' value in the $_ variable > > > > # Show user the file name. > > print $::DO_RENAME ? "Renaming " : ""; # Say "Renaming" if '-r' option > > print "$old_display_name\n"; > > print $::DO_RENAME ? "To ===== $_\n" : ""; # Show new file name if renaming > > > > # We only rename files if the script is invoked with the -r option > > if( $::DO_RENAME ) { > > rename( $old_filename, $_ ) or die "Couldn't rename $old_display_name to $_: $!"; > > } > > } > > 1; # Return 1 just in case. > > } > > -- > > Hereon > > hereon1 at fastmail.us > > > > -- > > http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > conspire mailing list > > conspire at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire > > -- > > Best Regards, > > Tony > > > _______________________________________________ > conspire mailing list > conspire at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire > -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From bill at wards.net Wed Dec 14 23:57:11 2005 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 23:57:11 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl In-Reply-To: <3d2fe1780512142356w127c1703wfb4a277b0f6ad05b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1134623133.29164.249841331@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20051215075333.GA22180@of.net> <3d2fe1780512142356w127c1703wfb4a277b0f6ad05b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780512142357k1b96c38cne9f6fc63125b7f00@mail.gmail.com> Sorry should be "or warn..." of course. On 12/14/05, Bill Ward wrote: > I'd add 'warn "$orig: $!" ' to your rename() but otherwise, looks good. > > On 12/14/05, Tony Godshall wrote: > > > > How about this? > > > > find . -type f \ > > | perl -ne '\ > > chomp; > > my $oldname=$_; > > while(s{^(.*)[\r\n]+(.*)$}{$1$2}}) { } > > if ( $oldname == $_ ) { rename($orig,$_); } > > } > > ' > > > > A little less complicated. And easily adapted for other > > purposes (I use something like this for cleaning up mp3 > > filenames before dumping them to my iriver). > > > > According to Hereon, > > > Howto find replace change newline control character in filename script program perl for linux unix > > > > > > Thanks to Bill & Sam. > > > > > > Useful for fixing .html files saved by Mozilla firefox. > > > > > > I sometimes copy the title of an article and paste it to the save dialog box of Mozilla firefox. > > > Sometimes this contains a newline character that I don't notice. > > > K3b cd writing backup fails on the filenames containing newlines. > > > > > > Place the script below in a text editor & save it in /usr/local/bin > > > as FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > > chmod 755 FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > > Go to the top of the directory tree you wish to search & replace. > > > > > > Run the program > > > FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl > > > > > > Running it with no options lists filnames which contain newline characters. > > > Run it with the "-r" option to actually change the file names. > > > > > > > > > ===================================================================== > > > #!/usr/bin/perl -w > > > # > > > # Usage: FindReplaceNewlineCharacterInFilename.pl [-r] > > > # Recursively finds all files and directories with newline characters in their name > > > # and optionally renames them to have spaces instead. By default, files are not renamed; > > > # the files that would be effected are listed on stdout. If invoked with the -r option, > > > # the files are renamed. > > > # > > > use File::Find; # Recursively visits every file in a list of directories > > > use Cwd; # for returning the current directory with getcwd(). > > > use strict; > > > no warnings 'File::Find'; > > > > > > $::DO_RENAME = $ARGV[0] eq "-r"; # Is true if user wants to actually rename the file > > > > > > my @dir; > > > push( @dir, getcwd() ); # Start in the current directory > > > find( \&RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename , @dir ); > > > > > > ## > > > # Replace all files with \n in them with spaces > > > > > > sub RemoveUnsafeCharactersFromFilename { > > > > > > # If the filename (that Find::File::find() puts in $_ and in $File::Find::name) > > > # contains a Newline character (\n, i.e. hex 0A ASCII 11 entered as ^V^J), > > > # replace it with a simple space character. > > > > > > # If the current filename contains the undesired control character, > > > if( m/[\n]/ ) { # m/pattern/ does a regex match of `pattern' against the $_ variable > > > > > > # Create string for user display that shows "/r"'s in the file name. > > > my $old_filename = $File::Find::name; > > > my $old_display_name = $old_filename; # show the old filename on a single line > > > $old_display_name =~ s/[\n]/\\n/g; # Put "\n" in the output to see. > > > s/[\n]/ /g; # s/old/new/ replaces `old' pattern with `new' value in the $_ variable > > > > > > # Show user the file name. > > > print $::DO_RENAME ? "Renaming " : ""; # Say "Renaming" if '-r' option > > > print "$old_display_name\n"; > > > print $::DO_RENAME ? "To ===== $_\n" : ""; # Show new file name if renaming > > > > > > # We only rename files if the script is invoked with the -r option > > > if( $::DO_RENAME ) { > > > rename( $old_filename, $_ ) or die "Couldn't rename $old_display_name to $_: $!"; > > > } > > > } > > > 1; # Return 1 just in case. > > > } > > > -- > > > Hereon > > > hereon1 at fastmail.us > > > > > > -- > > > http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > conspire mailing list > > > conspire at linuxmafia.com > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire > > > > -- > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Tony > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > conspire mailing list > > conspire at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire > > > > > -- > Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ > -- Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From moseley at hank.org Thu Dec 15 07:55:34 2005 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:55:34 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Another DNS trick: Making domains go away In-Reply-To: <20051215020449.GD9804@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051215020449.GD9804@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051215155534.GA18540@hank.org> Another tool I've used: http://perl.apache.org/docs/tutorials/tips/mod_perl_tricks/mod_perl_tricks.html#A_Banner_Ad_Blocker -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 15 10:53:06 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:53:06 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Usage of NDAs in legal flummery Message-ID: <20051215185306.GQ20384@linuxmafia.com> I decided not to send this e-mail to a firm I deal with, in hopes of not stirring that pot unless it _actually_ becomes an issue. However, it really annoys me that so many computer geeks let themselves be so easily manipulated by transparently and insultingly bogus legalistic bullshit -- and so I hope this draft can be of benefit to some others. Hello, $EXECUTIVE. It was a pleasure speaking to you, on Tuesday, December 13, and I look foward to the opportunity to examine $FIRM's product line. There was, however, one thing you said that concerned me: You asserted that a non-disclosure agreement I signed 2 1/2 years ago is still in force, and would apply to our telephone conversation that followed. The purpose of this e-mail is to share with you the results of my legal research on that question. (I am not an attorney, and nothing in this e-mail should be construed as me giving professional legal advice to you, $FIRM, or anyone else.) 1. In California law, non-disclosure agreements cannot have force without exchange of consideration, as that lack causes no contract to form. I note that I have not at any point executed any business contract whatsoever with you or $FIRM, thus far. Any moves towards such a contract would have been executory at that time, and had long gone defunct by the time 2 1/2 years passed. 2. California law actually voids completely, in Business and Professions Code ?16600, any contract that purports to restrain anyone "from engaging in a lawful profession, trade, or business of any kind", to the extent of that retraint. I am, of course, generally speaking, in the Unix-based IT and network consulting trade. 3. ?16600's application is of course tempered by California's Civil Code ?3426 et seq., implementing the Uniform Trade Secrets Act, which specifies the scope of trade secret law in our state. But those provisions apply only within an employment or similar business relationship involving a duty to maintain the information's secrecy or limit its use, only for a limited period of time, and only for subject matters within the scope of that business. Trade secrets, by the way, are constrained by statute to these areas: a "formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process" that maintains economic value. (Customer lists are also trade secrets per the separate provision of Business and Professions Code ?16606.) You cannot just declare, say, your next intended product ship date to be a trade secret and expect your opinion to enjoy legal protection. As a result of these concerns, I cannot regard myself as bound at this date to the terms of any NDA I might have executed with you or $FIRM, 2 1/2 years ago: We do not have that close a business relationship. In fact, we do not yet have one, at all. I'm, by intention, a sympathetic but very much independent and external party, interested in your firm's products and services. Irrespective of that, I am (and will remain) of course careful to safeguard the privacy and interests of all persons and firms I deal with during the course of my business affairs: Protecting people's confidences is part of just ordinary business ethics, irrespective of legal obligations. I hope this matter does not cause you problems, but I felt ethically obliged to bring it to your attention. From alamozzz at yahoo.com Fri Dec 16 09:34:32 2005 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:34:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [conspire] Linux Systems Engineer job opening Message-ID: <20051216173432.55090.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jim Stockford wrote: Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:43:15 -0800 From: Jim Stockford To: jim at well.com Subject: Linux Systems Engineer job opening Position: LINUX SYSTEMS ENGINEER Company: Reactrix Interactive Media Systems (Direct Employer) Location: Redwood City, CA Job Type: Full-time COMPANY PROFILE: Reactrix Systems, Inc. offers reactive media advertising in the out-of-home category. Reactive media is the most engaging and immersive media available, creating dramatically higher levels of brand recall and retention than television, radio, online, or traditional out-of-home advertising. Through our internally developed, innovative Reactive Media Network, advertisers are capable of breaking through the clutter and engaging their customers in a way never before possible. Reactrix is funded by Mobius Venture Capital, Worldview Technology Partners, and Tom Weisel Venture Partners. POSITION SUMMARY: The Linux Systems Engineer is responsible for the design and initial operations of our embedded Linux platform for our distributed multimedia network. Secondarily responsible for the design, development, and implementation of a strategic server management suite of tools to manage remote Linux hosts from a central site or sites. In addition, this person will provide second level Linux server support for the internal needs of the company. RESPONSIBILITIES: * Provide a stable multimedia and network platform for thousands of networked Linux boxes. * Develop software and process for third-party manufacturing embedded Linux boxes. * Develop software and process for hardware testing and failure analysis. * Drive component selection and qualification, and support driver updates. * Automate OS patches and upgrades over the network and via CD. * Develop monitoring and remote management tools for problem identification, escalation, and resolution of deployed Linux hosts. * Develop/configure daemons and drivers as needed to enhance stability, ease maintenance, or add functionality. * Participate in the design, testing, deployment, and stabilization of a virtual private secure IP web of hosts. * Automate the administration and health monitoring of internal (Corporate) production Linux servers. QUALIFICATIONS: * Expertise with Linux configuration, monitoring, and remote administration. * Experience with network and CD based installation/upgrades and automated patch deployment. * Experience with maintenance and failure analysis. * Experience with large-scale deployments. * Track record of having deployed large-scale systems and network management solutions. * Perl and shell scripting skills. * Working knowledge of SSH, RPM, RedHat Kickstart, and OpenSSL. * Expertise with Intrusion Detection and Data Encryption practices. * Strong interpersonal and team skills. * Must be passionate about working in a start-up. DESIRED QUALIFICATIONS: All skills listed below are "Nice to have's". Having none or only a few of the skills below does not necessarily indicate you are not qualified for the job. * Experience with Linux-based multimedia platforms. * Experience with Linux-based content management systems. * Experience with the following industries: advertising, interactive entertainment, retail stores. * Experience in manufacturing or computer system integration. * Network programming in UNIX/Linux environments. * Experience with SNMP, Video capture, MySQL, Network Security, PKI, Apache, SMTP, DHCP, DNS, Samba, NFS, Router, VPN and IPSEC deployment history. EDUCATION: Bachelor's Degree or Master's Degree in Computer Science, Engineering, or IT. BENEFITS: Reactrix provides comprehensive and competitive compensation and benefit packages. Benefits include Medical Insurance, Prescription Drug Insurance, Dental and Vision Reimbursement, 401KRetirement Plan, Paid Holidays, and accrued Paid Time Off - starting at 15 days/yr. CONTACT INFORMATION: Only qualified candidates should apply. If you are interested, please do the following: Send your resume and a cover letter summarizing how your background matches the requirements to jobs at reactrix.com. Title it "LSE #834" in the subject line. Please let us know how you heard about this opportunity. PLEASE VISIT OUR SITE: www.reactrix.com Thank you for your interest in Reactrix! A Proof of authorization to work in the United States required. No agency solicitations, please. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moseley at hank.org Fri Dec 16 12:47:53 2005 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:47:53 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Linux Systems Engineer job opening In-Reply-To: <20051216173432.55090.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20051216173432.55090.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051216204753.GA10487@hank.org> On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 09:34:32AM -0800, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Reactrix Systems, Inc. offers reactive media advertising in the > out-of-home category. Reactive media is the most engaging and immersive > media available, creating dramatically higher levels of brand recall and > retention than television, radio, online, or traditional out-of-home > advertising. Through our internally developed, innovative Reactive > Media Network, advertisers are capable of breaking through the clutter > and engaging their customers in a way never before possible. This involve some kind of brain implant? -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From jla1200 at netzero.net Fri Dec 16 01:55:27 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:55:27 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero Message-ID: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> When I try to start Netzero client from the desktop, it does not recognize the modem. The kppp recognizes the modem fine.I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work.I tried it from a terminal as root but that didn't matter except it said DM is off. What does that mean. Any suggestions on getting the Netzero to work? From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 16 15:00:59 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:00:59 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero References: Message-ID: Of course tty0 won't work; it's ttyS0, but I already made that symlink, so I guess udev must be involved. Add the following line to /etc/udev/links.conf: L modem ttyS0 Make sure kppp recognizes /dev/modem, and not just /dev/ttyS0. Can you provide a little more context to the "DM is off" message? On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 01:55:27 -0800, John Andrews wrote: > When I try to start Netzero client from the desktop, it does not recognize > the modem. The kppp recognizes the modem fine.I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem > but that didn't work.I tried it from a terminal as root but that didn't > matter except it said DM is off. What does that mean. > Any suggestions on getting the Netzero to work? From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 16 15:55:39 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:55:39 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero In-Reply-To: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: <20051216235539.GW7646@linuxmafia.com> John, I might be able to help you, but this is going to come along with what'll come across as a complaint (it's not!) about some of the quirks of language in your posts. I'm going to make some suggestions about your approach to seeking help in the future, solely with the aim of helping you more efficiently get assistance in the future, OK? Please don't take any of this as personal criticism. Please don't get frustrated: We'll help you on your problem! I'd just also like to help prospectively with debugging tips. Quoting John Andrews (jla1200 at netzero.net): > I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work. ^^^^ First and foremost, your problem may be as simple as specifying the right device name. /dev/tty0 is not a serial port; it's a _terminal_ device. You probably meant "/dev/ttyS0", which is the machine's first serial port, the one that in MS-DOS is called COM1. But I'm betting that you wrote your help request some while _after_ you did your efforts to make things work, rather than contemporaneously with them, right? Your descriptions have the rather fuzzy feeling about them that is characteristic of a write-up someone created from vague memory (which is bad, as the inevitably inaccuracies prevent effective help) as opposed to using diligent notes or copying and pasting directly from your diagnostic attempts. That is, you might have actually done this: $ su - # cd /dev # ln -s ttyS0 modem # exit $ ...but then (maybe) you didn't accurately remember what you typed, after the fact. The _exact_ contents of what you did are important, which is why it wastes a lot of time when questioners get those details wrong. Second, your phrase "didn't work" is one of a long series of common phrases that are actively harmful to diagnosis, because they omit what is really important. (Others are "crashed", "bombed", "failed", etc.) What's omitted, and what's really important, is _what actually happened_. To clarify that point, I tend to tell querents "Techies are from Missouri." That is, you need to _show them_. If you did something that is important at the command line, _show_ the entire command-line sequence to the people you want to help you, using cut-and-paste. E.g.: $ su - Password: # cd /dev # ls -l modem ls: modem: No such file or directory # ln -s ttyS0 modem # ls -l modem lrwxrwxrwx 1 rute root 5 Dec 17 07:03 modem -> ttyS0 # exit $ Notice how I take a couple of extra steps to show that no symbolic link exists when I started, and the exact nature of what was created when I finished. Given that information, a technician whom I've asked to help me would know objectively exactly what I've done and where the "modem" symlink points to. Third (and as an extension of the "Show me" point), you're displaying the very, very common, but problematic trait of telling us your _interpretations_ rather than the raw data. Technicians need raw data; it's not good for them to have to rely on your interpretations. E.g.: > When I try to start Netzero client from the desktop, it does not recognize > the modem. Your phrase "does not recognize" is your _interpretation_. You don't state what sequence of events happened that lead you to that conclusion. The latter is the raw data, and is what technicians need. Because technicians are not present in the room with you, your description has to compensate for our inability to see what you're seeing. Except in the case of baseline tools that are on every Linux system, you shouldn't assume that we all have the software you're using, either. If your case, I believe the "Netzero client" you speak of is a graphical proprietary application. But you didn't say that -- and you really do need to say it. You said you "started" it "from the desktop". Started how? What desktop? Sometimes, for purposes of clarity in diagnostic situations, it's best to run even graphical applications of interest from a terminal session, e.g.: $ netzero & $ (The "&" detaches the started-up process from the terminal, starting it in background, and giving you back your command prompt. If you that, and copy and paste the command session, then technicians will know precisely what you did to launch such programs, and will have greater confidence that you didn't forget to mention something important. Does the Netzero client have a screen for configuration (aka "preferences")? Does such a screen show a serial port that is to be used? Does it say /dev/modem? >The kppp recognizes the modem fine. Again, it's really hard for us to know what this means. You could mean that kppp dials, connects, negotiates your PPP login, and establishes full Internet connectivity that you confirmed by doing the following at a command prompt: $ ping www.apple.com PING www.apple.com.akadns.net (17.254.0.91) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from www.apple.com (17.254.0.91): icmp_seq=1 ttl=241 time=617 ms 64 bytes from www.apple.com (17.254.0.91): icmp_seq=2 ttl=241 time=618 ms 64 bytes from www.apple.com (17.254.0.91): icmp_seq=3 ttl=241 time=622 ms --- www.apple.com.akadns.net ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, 3 received, 25% packet loss, time 3697ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 617.394/619.272/622.122/2.147 ms $ Doesn't kppp have a screen where the modem device can be specified? What does it say? Maybe "/dev/ttyS0"? > I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work. Again, the biggest problem in the above, even worse than the fact that it's unclear what directory you were in, and thus unclear where "tty0" is, and even worse than /dev/tty0 (as opposed to /dev/ttyS0) making no sense as a serial device, is that we have no way of knowing what you mean when you say "didn't work". You were probably really clear in your mind about what you meant, but we can't read your mind -- or your screen. ;-> > I tried it from a terminal as root but that didn't > matter except it said DM is off. What does that mean. Insufficient data. > Any suggestions on getting the Netzero to work? Yes. What does the accompanying documentation state, about how to specify the serial port? From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 16 16:53:36 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:53:36 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 15:55:39 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > John, I might be able to help you, but this is going to come along with > what'll come across as a complaint (it's not!) about some of the quirks > of language in your posts. I'm going to make some suggestions about > your approach to seeking help in the future, solely with the aim of > helping you more efficiently get assistance in the future, OK? Please > don't take any of this as personal criticism. > > Please don't get frustrated: We'll help you on your problem! I'd just > also like to help prospectively with debugging tips. This is perfectly true, but I am in possession of some of the information that he left out, because I know what I did to his system and how it behaved after that. > Quoting John Andrews (jla1200 at netzero.net): > >> I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work. > ^^^^ > > First and foremost, your problem may be as simple as specifying the > right device name. /dev/tty0 is not a serial port; it's a _terminal_ > device. You probably meant "/dev/ttyS0", which is the machine's first > serial port, the one that in MS-DOS is called COM1. > > But I'm betting that you wrote your help request some while _after_ you > did your efforts to make things work, rather than contemporaneously with > them, right? Your descriptions have the rather fuzzy feeling about them > that is characteristic of a write-up someone created from vague memory > (which is bad, as the inevitably inaccuracies prevent effective help) as > opposed to using diligent notes or copying and pasting directly from > your diagnostic attempts. > > That is, you might have actually done this: > > $ su - > # cd /dev > # ln -s ttyS0 modem > # exit > $ > > ...but then (maybe) you didn't accurately remember what you typed, after > the fact. The _exact_ contents of what you did are important, which is > why it wastes a lot of time when questioners get those details wrong. I took all of that into account in my reply, but thanks for illustrating what I had to think about in the process. One of the last things I did to his system was "sudo ln -s ttyS0 /dev/modem" but did not retest the NetZero client after that because he had not brought his modem with him anyway. I also warned him that I did not know whether that symlink would survive a reboot in the presence of udev. I now know that it would not, so the symlink I created went away almost immediately, thus leaving the NetZero client no more nor less functional as when I tested it. > Second, your phrase "didn't work" is one of a long series of common > phrases that are actively harmful to diagnosis, because they omit what > is really important. (Others are "crashed", "bombed", "failed", etc.) > What's omitted, and what's really important, is _what actually > happened_. > > To clarify that point, I tend to tell querents "Techies are from > Missouri." That is, you need to _show them_. If you did something that > is important at the command line, _show_ the entire command-line > sequence to the people you want to help you, using cut-and-paste. E.g.: > > $ su - > Password: > # cd /dev > # ls -l modem > ls: modem: No such file or directory > # ln -s ttyS0 modem > # ls -l modem > lrwxrwxrwx 1 rute root 5 Dec 17 07:03 modem -> ttyS0 # > exit > $ > > Notice how I take a couple of extra steps to show that no symbolic link > exists when I started, and the exact nature of what was created when I > finished. Given that information, a technician whom I've asked to help > me would know objectively exactly what I've done and where the "modem" > symlink points to. Yes, this would all be ideal, but one has to keep in mind that one of the manifestations of the problem at hand is that he cannot access his e-mail and his Linux installation at the same time. If I had his phone number, I could try to give some of this a more real-time approach, but the most real-time approach would of course be tomorrow's SVLUG installfest. > Third (and as an extension of the "Show me" point), you're displaying > the very, very common, but problematic trait of telling us your > _interpretations_ rather than the raw data. Technicians need raw data; > it's not good for them to have to rely on your interpretations. E.g.: > > >> When I try to start Netzero client from the desktop, it does not >> recognize the modem. > > Your phrase "does not recognize" is your _interpretation_. You don't > state what sequence of events happened that lead you to that conclusion. > The latter is the raw data, and is what technicians need. Yes, it's his interpretation, but I think it's reasonable for me to assume that it's an interpretation of events identical to what I saw first hand when I tested to see how well the NetZero client would work, which was that everything was fine until it tried to access /dev/modem, which didn't exist. > Because technicians are not present in the room with you, your > description has to compensate for our inability to see what you're > seeing. Except in the case of baseline tools that are on every Linux > system, you shouldn't assume that we all have the software you're using, > either. > > If your case, I believe the "Netzero client" you speak of is a graphical > proprietary application. But you didn't say that -- and you really do > need to say it. You said you "started" it "from the desktop". Started > how? What desktop? Sometimes, for purposes of clarity in diagnostic > situations, it's best to run even graphical applications of interest > from a terminal session, e.g.: > > $ netzero & > $ > > (The "&" detaches the started-up process from the terminal, starting it > in background, and giving you back your command prompt. > > If you that, and copy and paste the command session, then technicians > will know precisely what you did to launch such programs, and will have > greater confidence that you didn't forget to mention something > important. This one's a no-brainer: He has an icon for the NetZero client on his KDE desktop, because the name of the script that invokes it is not "netzero" but something cryptic that I didn't bother to remember, and not even in his $PATH, but buried somewhere in /opt. When the icon is opened, the script is run, and what looks like it might be a Motif-based app appears. > Does the Netzero client have a screen for configuration (aka > "preferences")? Does such a screen show a serial port that is to be > used? Does it say /dev/modem? It does have configuration and preferences screens, but the serial port is not among the options. Evidently, that's hardwired to /dev/modem, presumably meaning that Linspire would have its own configuration and preferences screens that control to what that symlink would point on such a system. This is not an incompatibility with Kubuntu since Kubuntu also has such a configuration option in /etc/udev/links.conf, but Kubuntu does not have a graphical way to set that because it is not normally used in that distribution. >>The kppp recognizes the modem fine. > > Again, it's really hard for us to know what this means. You could mean > that kppp dials, connects, negotiates your PPP login, and establishes > full Internet connectivity that you confirmed by doing the following at > a command prompt: > > > $ ping www.apple.com > PING www.apple.com.akadns.net (17.254.0.91) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 > bytes from www.apple.com (17.254.0.91): icmp_seq=1 ttl=241 time=617 ms > 64 bytes from www.apple.com (17.254.0.91): icmp_seq=2 ttl=241 time=618 > ms 64 bytes from www.apple.com (17.254.0.91): icmp_seq=3 ttl=241 > time=622 ms > > --- www.apple.com.akadns.net ping statistics --- 4 packets transmitted, > 3 received, 25% packet loss, time 3697ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = > 617.394/619.272/622.122/2.147 ms $ > > > Doesn't kppp have a screen where the modem device can be specified? What > does it say? Maybe "/dev/ttyS0"? Obviously, it's not all of that that kppp does, because NetZero is his only ISP, and they don't accept standard PPP logins. The fact that kppp is able to do any of it at all tells me that no kernel modules are at fault, and that's pretty much the only useful information that could be gleaned at this point from an attempt to use kppp. In light of all of the above, I think it's reasonable to assume that kppp was configured to use /dev/ttyS0 and not /dev/modem, which is why I said to make sure it behaves identically both ways. >> I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work. > > Again, the biggest problem in the above, even worse than the fact that > it's unclear what directory you were in, and thus unclear where "tty0" > is, and even worse than /dev/tty0 (as opposed to /dev/ttyS0) making no > sense as a serial device, is that we have no way of knowing what you > mean when you say "didn't work". The current working directory has no bearing on the creation of a symlink, except of course that tab-completion will only work if you are in the directory where the symlink will live. > You were probably really clear in your mind about what you meant, but we > can't read your mind -- or your screen. ;-> Agreed, but it can't be helped in this case, for reasons I stated above. >> I tried it from a terminal as root but that didn't matter except it >> said DM is off. What does that mean. > > Insufficient data. Yes, I said as much. >> Any suggestions on getting the Netzero to work? > > Yes. What does the accompanying documentation state, about how to > specify the serial port? I did not detect the presence of any "accompanying documentation" for the NetZero client. I am assuming that the port is specified by the destination of the /dev/modem symlink, because when the symlink didn't exist, the NetZero client complained that it couldn't find /dev/modem. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 16 17:28:42 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:28:42 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero In-Reply-To: References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: <20051217012842.GX7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > Yes, I said as much. You're probably assuming that I was in possession of your post when I wrote mine. That is not the case. I started writing my reply to John quite a while ago. While it was in buffer (and I wasn't reading new posts), you sent your own, shorter reply. A short while later, I finished mine, posted it, and -- finally -- read yours. There are several points that I was trying to make for John's long-term benefit, above and beyond solving his immediate problem: 1. Techies are from Missouri. ("Show me.") Don't make us guess that you were in the correct directory when you typed "ln -s...". Show us! 2. We can't see what the user is seeing. 3. Literally accurate, chronologically ordered recountings of exactly what happened are highly desirable. Producing those usually requires _trying again_, and either taking really good notes or using "script" to capture your session. 4. You as the user can't assume we know (or remember) your system, or your situation. Yes, there might be _one_ of us who does, but it's rude to not bear in mind that you're speaking to _all_ of us. (If you're trying to seek help from just that one guy, kindly at least say so.) 5. You as the user can't assume we also have your choice of "desktop" software at our disposal. > I took all of that into account in my reply.... Which didn't exist, from where I sat, when I composed mine. > One of the last things I did to his system was "sudo ln -s ttyS0 > /dev/modem" but did not retest the NetZero client after that because > he had not brought his modem with him anyway. I also warned him that I > did not know whether that symlink would survive a reboot in the > presence of udev. I now know that it would not, so the symlink I > created went away almost immediately, thus leaving the NetZero client > no more nor less functional as when I tested it. Suggestion: Have the user take notes. We have spare printer/fax paper, for those who didn't think to bring any. The smartest thing I ever did, when I was first admining Linux, was keep a composition book next to the monitor, and record every significant change or configuration or problem in it. This is _particularly_ important for those new to Linux, since they're going to be overwhelmed with new things to deal with, and cannot be expected to remember things you mention as followup items. > Yes, this would all be ideal, but one has to keep in mind that one of the > manifestations of the problem at hand is that he cannot access his e-mail > and his Linux installation at the same time. So, he can use a text editor, instead. Save it to a floppy or USB flash drive, if necessary. When I was new to Linux, this is one of the things I used that composition book (or other notepaper) for. These days, for just a terminal session, I'd often use "script" to log the session. > > Your phrase "does not recognize" is your _interpretation_. You don't > > state what sequence of events happened that lead you to that conclusion. > > The latter is the raw data, and is what technicians need. > > Yes, it's his interpretation, but I think it's reasonable for me to assume > that it's an interpretation of events identical to what I saw first hand > when I tested to see how well the NetZero client would work, which was > that everything was fine until it tried to access /dev/modem, which didn't > exist. See point #4: He was addressing this mailing list's entire membership as a whole, not just you. And my point was explicitly a broad, pretty much universal one, that will aid him in _all_ technical assistance and documentation situations. > > If you that, and copy and paste the command session, then technicians > > will know precisely what you did to launch such programs, and will have > > greater confidence that you didn't forget to mention something > > important. > > This one's a no-brainer: He has an icon for the NetZero client on his KDE > desktop, because the name of the script that invokes it is not "netzero" > but something cryptic that I didn't bother to remember, and not even in > his $PATH, but buried somewhere in /opt. When the icon is opened, the > script is run, and what looks like it might be a Motif-based app appears. See points #4 and 5. > > Does the Netzero client have a screen for configuration (aka > > "preferences")? Does such a screen show a serial port that is to be > > used? Does it say /dev/modem? > > It does have configuration and preferences screens, but the serial port is > not among the options. Evidently, that's hardwired to /dev/modem, > presumably meaning that Linspire would have its own configuration and > preferences screens that control to what that symlink would point on such > a system. The point was not so much to find out that datum from John, as to ensure that he _look_, and mention having done so, in similar situations in the future. I'm attempting to help John learn to fish, instead of just giving him a fish. > Obviously, it's not all of that that kppp does, because NetZero is his > only ISP, and they don't accept standard PPP logins. The fact that kppp is > able to do any of it at all tells me that no kernel modules are at fault, > and that's pretty much the only useful information that could be gleaned > at this point from an attempt to use kppp. Maybe -- but he didn't say so, and it's better that he not obliged people to guess. > In light of all of the above, I think it's reasonable to assume that > kppp was configured to use /dev/ttyS0 and not /dev/modem, which is why > I said to make sure it behaves identically both ways. I made the same guess -- but it was more important to stress to John that he provide reliable relevant informaiton in his help requests, than it was for me to guess that information correctly. > >> I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work. > > > > Again, the biggest problem in the above, even worse than the fact that > > it's unclear what directory you were in, and thus unclear where "tty0" > > is, and even worse than /dev/tty0 (as opposed to /dev/ttyS0) making no > > sense as a serial device, is that we have no way of knowing what you > > mean when you say "didn't work". > > The current working directory has no bearing on the creation of a symlink, > except of course that tab-completion will only work if you are in the > directory where the symlink will live. The current working directory would _very_ much have a bearing on that matter, if he were in the wrong directory. Thus my point that he should _show us_, rather than obliging us to guess that he was _probably_ somewhere useful when he did that. > > You were probably really clear in your mind about what you meant, but we > > can't read your mind -- or your screen. ;-> > > Agreed, but it can't be helped in this case, for reasons I stated above. No, Daniel, I know it _can_. I've devoted a lot of user-assistance documentation, including that essay I co-write with Eric Raymond, to helping users get around that problem. > > Yes. What does the accompanying documentation state, about how to > > specify the serial port? > > I did not detect the presence of any "accompanying documentation" for the > NetZero client. If John knew of this, then it would have been a good idea to mention it. ("Oh, by the way, I _did_ check for any documentation provided with the Linspire-oriented .deb I installed the NetZero app from onto my Kubuntu box from: There was nothing in /usr/share/doc/netzero or /usr/share/doc/NetZero, and here's what happened when I tried to call up a manpage: [small terminal session]" > I am assuming that the port is specified by the destination of the > /dev/modem symlink, because when the symlink didn't exist, the NetZero > client complained that it couldn't find /dev/modem. That's what I figured, too -- but my main concern was the broader one. From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 16 19:25:42 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 19:25:42 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: Providing validation for John's lack of information was not the purpose of my last post. The primary purpose was to elaborate on additional information regarding the problem, since I was in a unique position to do that. If my choosing to do so in the context of your post was somehow construed as dismissing or attacking you, I apologize, as I had no intention of doing that. On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:28:42 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: [snip] > Suggestion: Have the user take notes. We have spare printer/fax paper, > for those who didn't think to bring any. > > The smartest thing I ever did, when I was first admining Linux, was keep > a composition book next to the monitor, and record every significant > change or configuration or problem in it. This is _particularly_ > important for those new to Linux, since they're going to be overwhelmed > with new things to deal with, and cannot be expected to remember things > you mention as followup items. Yes, it may be very helpful for John to do that, but I wouldn't want to decide for him which tidbits are worthy of recording and where. >> Yes, this would all be ideal, but one has to keep in mind that one of >> the manifestations of the problem at hand is that he cannot access his >> e-mail and his Linux installation at the same time. > > So, he can use a text editor, instead. Save it to a floppy or USB flash > drive, if necessary. You or I could do that, or even access his vfat Windows partition directly, but I think it's a little much to expect those that are new to have done that without a separate demonstration of only that. > When I was new to Linux, this is one of the things I used that > composition book (or other notepaper) for. These days, for just a > terminal session, I'd often use "script" to log the session. And I tend to use ~/.bash_history for that purpose. "All sizes fit one." [snip] > See point #4: He was addressing this mailing list's entire membership > as a whole, not just you. And my point was explicitly a broad, pretty > much universal one, that will aid him in _all_ technical assistance and > documentation situations. Again, what I said is meant to supplement what you said, not supplant it. I know it's a bit nonstandard, but unless I am making a specific reference to something as being inaccurate (such as the symlink/directory issue below), I am underscoring what was previously said. I can see how that could cause confusion, but it can save a lot of excess typing/speaking. [snip] >> > Does the Netzero client have a screen for configuration (aka >> > "preferences")? Does such a screen show a serial port that is to be >> > used? Does it say /dev/modem? >> >> It does have configuration and preferences screens, but the serial port >> is not among the options. Evidently, that's hardwired to /dev/modem, >> presumably meaning that Linspire would have its own configuration and >> preferences screens that control to what that symlink would point on >> such a system. > > The point was not so much to find out that datum from John, as to ensure > that he _look_, and mention having done so, in similar situations in the > future. I'm attempting to help John learn to fish, instead of just > giving him a fish. OK, this is an example of what may have been worthy of John's hypothetical notes: the results of previous examinations of the configuration and preferences screens. If a device setting had been there, the likelihood that it would say /dev/modem is not that great, but still a strong possibility. In the event that it said something else, it would have been necessary to explain what the different serial devices available under Linux are, which would be desirable, but it was getting late at the time the NetZero client was being tested, so I took a shortcut by going through the configuration and preferences screens myself and reporting my conclusions to John. Mea culpa. >> Obviously, it's not all of that that kppp does, because NetZero is his >> only ISP, and they don't accept standard PPP logins. The fact that kppp >> is able to do any of it at all tells me that no kernel modules are at >> fault, and that's pretty much the only useful information that could be >> gleaned at this point from an attempt to use kppp. > > Maybe -- but he didn't say so, and it's better that he not obliged > people to guess. Perhaps it may be construed as a request to guess, but for it to be an obligation, there would have to be some kind of if-then based on the missing information. Although that is not the case here, I can see how ignoring this relatively extraneous partial information can encourage partial information where it matters, necessitating requests for clarification. [snip] >> >> I did ln -s tty0 /dev/modem but that didn't work. >> > >> > Again, the biggest problem in the above, even worse than the fact >> > that it's unclear what directory you were in, and thus unclear where >> > "tty0" is, and even worse than /dev/tty0 (as opposed to /dev/ttyS0) >> > making no sense as a serial device, is that we have no way of knowing >> > what you mean when you say "didn't work". >> >> The current working directory has no bearing on the creation of a >> symlink, except of course that tab-completion will only work if you are >> in the directory where the symlink will live. > > The current working directory would _very_ much have a bearing on that > matter, if he were in the wrong directory. Thus my point that he should > _show us_, rather than obliging us to guess that he was _probably_ > somewhere useful when he did that. It has been my experience that the current directory is not involved in the creation of symlinks other than as a basis for a relative pathname provided to the ln command as the final argument only. Please share any information you may have as to how that could adversely affect a situation where one is in the wrong directory while issuing an ln command with an absolute pathname as the final argument, as John showed above, and as would be most convenient when putting a symlink so close to the top of the tree. >> > You were probably really clear in your mind about what you meant, but we >> > can't read your mind -- or your screen. ;-> >> >> Agreed, but it can't be helped in this case, for reasons I stated above. > > No, Daniel, I know it _can_. I've devoted a lot of user-assistance > documentation, including that essay I co-write with Eric Raymond, to > helping users get around that problem. I meant it can't be helped that he had already asked for help without the system in question in front of him at the time, and that IMO the reasons I stated were justifiable for him to feel the need to do it that way. It would always be possible to improve upon how one goes about collecting the information the next time that would be needed by anyone who might step in to help. >> > Yes. What does the accompanying documentation state, about how to >> > specify the serial port? >> >> I did not detect the presence of any "accompanying documentation" for >> the NetZero client. > > If John knew of this, then it would have been a good idea to mention it. > ("Oh, by the way, I _did_ check for any documentation provided with the > Linspire-oriented .deb I installed the NetZero app from onto my Kubuntu > box from: There was nothing in /usr/share/doc/netzero or > /usr/share/doc/NetZero, and here's what happened when I tried to call up > a manpage: [small terminal session]" I attempted to inquire about exactly this beforehand when I asked John to report back on the results of "dpkg -c" some time ago. Unfortunately, he did not know enough to be able to identify anything of interest from that, such as a "doc" or "man" directory. I was very hasty when, after he had installed the package, I did a "dpkg -L" to see where it put anything that would resemble either an executable or a plug-in for one, so there may still be some documentation of some kind in there somewhere that I didn't detect. There may also be some kind of documentation on whatever webpage he downloaded the package from, which I never saw. [snip] From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 16 20:09:34 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:09:34 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero In-Reply-To: References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: <20051217040934.GY7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > Providing validation for John's lack of information was not the purpose of > my last post. The primary purpose was to elaborate on additional > information regarding the problem, since I was in a unique position to do > that. If my choosing to do so in the context of your post was somehow > construed as dismissing or attacking you, I apologize, as I had no > intention of doing that. No, that's not a problem. Thanks for stepping in, by the way. > Yes, it may be very helpful for John to do that, but I wouldn't want to > decide for him which tidbits are worthy of recording and where. Yes. Actually, the very task of having to decide what's worth writing down was, if I remember correctly, really helpful if something of an extra challenge. > > So, he can use a text editor, instead. Save it to a floppy or USB flash > > drive, if necessary. > > You or I could do that, or even access his vfat Windows partition > directly, but I think it's a little much to expect those that are new to > have done that without a separate demonstration of only that. In a way, I was sort of thinking aloud, and looking towards my possible near-term project of a "So CABAL helped you install Linux. Now what?" document -- which, among other things, would address some of those tricky points like "How (and why) do I do terminal session capture, and how do I move files between Linux and Windows?" But this actually was one of the reasons why I initially used a composition book -- because it was so low-tech as to not pose additional challenges while I had my hands full enough with an alien OS, already. > And I tend to use ~/.bash_history for that purpose. "All sizes fit one." ~/.bash_history will show you what _you_ typed at the command line -- but /usr/bin/script records that _plus_ what the computer responded when you typed at it, in strict event order. It's frequently very useful to have an absolutely verbatim log of a terminal session, and /usr/bin/script does exactly that. > OK, this is an example of what may have been worthy of John's hypothetical > notes: the results of previous examinations of the configuration and > preferences screens. If a device setting had been there, the likelihood > that it would say /dev/modem is not that great, but still a strong > possibility. In the event that it said something else, it would have been > necessary to explain what the different serial devices available under > Linux are, which would be desirable, but it was getting late at the time > the NetZero client was being tested, so I took a shortcut by going through > the configuration and preferences screens myself and reporting my > conclusions to John. Mea culpa. Eh, you didn't do anything wrong. ;-> As you said, you were in the unusual situation of knowing a lot more about John's situation than the rest of us, but I had only the text of John's request to work with (plus the vague recollection of answering questions, earlier, about installing the NetZero .deb from Linspire onto something else). Presumably John's going to want to seek help again, and he'll be best advised to be aware of the best way to ask technical questions, which entails among other things telling people what you checked before posting. > Perhaps it may be construed as a request to guess, but for it to be an > obligation, there would have to be some kind of if-then based on the > missing information. Huh? I'm not sure I'm following you (and I might have been guilty of being a little cryptic, myself). I was saying that "he didn't say" what kppp succeeded at doing, meaning that the reader is obliged to guess if he's to arrive at any conclusions on that score, e.g., "John must have meant that kppp successfully made the modem dial" or "John must have meant that kppp successfully secured remote IP transport." > It has been my experience that the current directory is not involved in > the creation of symlinks other than as a basis for a relative pathname > provided to the ln command as the final argument only. Please share any > information you may have as to how that could adversely affect a situation > where one is in the wrong directory while issuing an ln command with an > absolute pathname as the final argument, as John showed above, and as > would be most convenient when putting a symlink so close to the top of the > tree. Huh, you're right. I just learned something: ~ $ su - Password: linuxmafia:~# ln -s ttyS0 /dev/anothermodem linuxmafia:~# ls -al /dev/anothermodem lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2005-12-16 19:57 /dev/anothermodem -> ttyS0 linuxmafia:~# I've always been really careful when creating symlinks to use explicit pathing (either absolute or relative, depending), and had wrongly assumed that the shell would expand any unqualified filename used as the first argument, using as default path the current directory. Wow, and I never even tested that assumption. I still do prefer links that have more path information in them, though. > I meant it can't be helped that he had already asked for help without the > system in question in front of him at the time, and that IMO the reasons I > stated were justifiable for him to feel the need to do it that way. It > would always be possible to improve upon how one goes about collecting the > information the next time that would be needed by anyone who might step > in to help. Eh, don't forget: I was unaware that you were fully briefed, and assumed John was addressing all of the mailing list's membership. > I attempted to inquire about exactly this beforehand when I asked John to > report back on the results of "dpkg -c" some time ago. Unfortunately, he > did not know enough to be able to identify anything of interest from that, > such as a "doc" or "man" directory. I was very hasty when, after he had > installed the package, I did a "dpkg -L" to see where it put anything that > would resemble either an executable or a plug-in for one, so there may > still be some documentation of some kind in there somewhere that I didn't > detect. There may also be some kind of documentation on whatever webpage > he downloaded the package from, which I never saw. Actually, my point was a broader one: If you have some idea where to look for documentation before posting, it improves your help request to mention where you looked. Equally, if you have _no_ idea where to look, it improves your help request to mention that fact, because at least it stresses that you tried -- and people will probably then advise you about where to look, as a bonus. I should hasten to add, again, for John's benefit, that I'm not trying to denigrate what he wrote; I'm just trying to help give advice about future help requests, to make them easier to assist with, and thus a less frustrating experience for both John and his future helpers. From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 16 20:52:59 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:52:59 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:09:34 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: [snip] >> Perhaps it may be construed as a request to guess, but for it to be an >> obligation, there would have to be some kind of if-then based on the >> missing information. > > Huh? I'm not sure I'm following you (and I might have been guilty of > being a little cryptic, myself). I was saying that "he didn't say" what > kppp succeeded at doing, meaning that the reader is obliged to guess if > he's to arrive at any conclusions on that score, e.g., "John must have > meant that kppp successfully made the modem dial" or "John must have > meant that kppp successfully secured remote IP transport." [snip] Example: If kppp successfully made the modem dial, then Conclusion A. If kppp successfully secured remote IP transport, then Conclusion B. If there is no meaningful difference between Conclusion A and Conclusion B, one is hardly obligated to guess which of the two conclusions to draw. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 16 21:02:21 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:02:21 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero In-Reply-To: References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: <20051217050221.GZ7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > If there is no meaningful difference between Conclusion A and Conclusion > B, one is hardly obligated to guess which of the two conclusions to draw. Yes, but one had to guess, to arrive at _either_ of those conclusions. For all we knew, "The kppp recognizes the modem fine" might have meant to John merely that kppp didn't complain, or heavens knows what else. Call me a cynic, but I've seen people use the terms "worked" and "recognized" to mean a lot of odd things -- and likewise "crashed", etc. Deirdre accuses me of having a brain that's a ridiculously over-strict parser, always throwing up exceptions over even arguably vague syntax. ;-> From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 16 21:20:50 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:20:50 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: On Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:02:21 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > >> If there is no meaningful difference between Conclusion A and Conclusion >> B, one is hardly obligated to guess which of the two conclusions to draw. > > Yes, but one had to guess, to arrive at _either_ of those conclusions. > For all we knew, "The kppp recognizes the modem fine" might have meant > to John merely that kppp didn't complain, or heavens knows what else. If it did mean that, would there be a different conclusion you would draw? > Call me a cynic, but I've seen people use the terms "worked" and > "recognized" to mean a lot of odd things -- and likewise "crashed", etc. Unless he would define "worked" as "succeeded in crashing," I wouldn't expect it to skew the situation any. > Deirdre accuses me of having a brain that's a ridiculously over-strict > parser, always throwing up exceptions over even arguably vague syntax. ;-> The necessity of training oneself to be such an over-strict parser is an occupational hazard. Those of us who are such over-strict parsers without any special training welcome you. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 16 23:39:11 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 23:39:11 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy Badger /Netzero In-Reply-To: References: <003501c60226$d86a5d60$86a25545@usernir6lkfs8c> Message-ID: <20051217073911.GA7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Daniel Gimpelevich (daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us): > > Yes, but one had to guess, to arrive at _either_ of those conclusions. > > For all we knew, "The kppp recognizes the modem fine" might have meant > > to John merely that kppp didn't complain, or heavens knows what else. > > If it did mean that, would there be a different conclusion you would draw? Sure. I'd conclude that we didn't even know that kppp was trying to talk to the correct serial port. In which case, asking which port kppp was configured to use would be useless. It does make a difference. > The necessity of training oneself to be such an over-strict parser is > an occupational hazard. Those of us who are such over-strict parsers > without any special training welcome you. From jane_ikari at yahoo.com Sat Dec 17 14:37:40 2005 From: jane_ikari at yahoo.com (bruce coston) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:37:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [conspire] pixma printers Message-ID: <20051217223740.32583.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> this is the 2nd refill where my pixma 3000 is dumping gobs of ink that splotch the pages. Was it Daniel who got some experience messing around inside a pixma printer? not as urgent as it could be because I have ross's old canon as a 2nd printer for hi -er quality printing and a friend has my pixma 2000 : does anybody know how to rig a continuous print system cheap ? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Sat Dec 17 18:51:46 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 18:51:46 -0800 Subject: [conspire] pixma printers References: Message-ID: I haven't messed around inside a Canon yet, but I have with Epson and HP. Shouldn't be all that different from an Epson. Continuous-ink systems are a major PITA, but I seem to remember a cheap one for Epson. If you really do that much printing, I'll take a look at anything like that when I'm at the MacWorld Expo next month. On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:37:40 -0800, bruce coston wrote: > this is the 2nd refill where my pixma 3000 is dumping gobs of ink that splotch the pages. Was it Daniel who got some experience messing around inside a pixma printer? not as urgent as it could be because I have ross's old canon as a 2nd printer for hi -er quality printing and a friend has my pixma 2000 : does anybody know how to rig a continuous print system cheap ? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com this is the 2nd refill where my pixma 3000 is dumping gobs of ink that splotch the pages. Was it Daniel who got some experience messing around inside a pixma printer? not as urgent as it could be because I have ross's old canon as a 2nd printer for hi -er quality printing and a friend has my pixma 2000 : does anybody know how to rig a continuous print system cheap ?

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http://mail.yahoo.com From rossbernheim at speakeasy.net Sat Dec 17 22:29:34 2005 From: rossbernheim at speakeasy.net (Ross Bernheim) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 22:29:34 -0800 Subject: [conspire] pixma printers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2ED6F44F-6D82-420C-AE58-C639BC69C6EF@speakeasy.net> I have been doing that much printing with my Pixma 6600D lately. So far the best paper that I have found for pictures is the Konica/Minolta glossy paper. Next best so far is the Epson glossy paper. The paper along with the ink is expensive. When I finish up the paper on hand, I am going to try to find a less expensive paper source. Ross On Dec 17, 2005, at 6:51 PM, Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: > I haven't messed around inside a Canon yet, but I have with Epson > and HP. > Shouldn't be all that different from an Epson. Continuous-ink > systems are > a major PITA, but I seem to remember a cheap one for Epson. If you > really > do that much printing, I'll take a look at anything like that when > I'm at > the MacWorld Expo next month. > > On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 14:37:40 -0800, bruce coston wrote: > >> this is the 2nd refill where my pixma 3000 is dumping gobs of ink >> that splotch the pages. Was it Daniel who got some experience >> messing around inside a pixma printer? not as urgent as it could >> be because I have ross's old canon as a 2nd printer for hi -er >> quality printing and a friend has my pixma 2000 : does anybody >> know how to rig a continuous print system cheap ? From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Sun Dec 18 02:01:59 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:01:59 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Tray-loading iMac updates prior to a Linux install Message-ID: Firmware information: http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/s/asfq80/ dotcom/panthereatsimac/tray.htm Modem updater: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=85018 CD drive updater: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60458 -- "Consider that two wrongs never make a right, but that three do." --National Lampoon From wallachd at earthlink.net Sun Dec 18 07:16:37 2005 From: wallachd at earthlink.net (Darlene Wallach) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 07:16:37 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Tray-loading iMac updates prior to a Linux install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43A57D55.4040709@earthlink.net> Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: > Firmware information: > > http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/s/asfq80/dotcom/panthereatsimac/tray.htm > > Modem updater: > > http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=85018 > > CD drive updater: > > http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=60458 > Thank you! -- World Centric Fair Trade & Eco Store http://www.worldcentric.org/store/ We have created and live in a world of gross social and economic inequalities[1] and are at the same time severely impacting[2] the natural eco-systems and regenerating bio-capacity of the planet. Our every action has an impact on the well-being of our planet and our everyday decisions[3] can help create a better world for all. In keeping with this fact and our vision, the World Centric Fair Trade/Eco Online Store provides everyday consumption choices, which can help minimize social & economic inequalities, reduce the impact of our consumption on the environment and help create a better and sustainable world. [1] http://www.worldcentric.org/stateworld/socialjustice.htm [2] http://www.worldcentric.org/stateworld/environment.htm [3] http://www.worldcentric.org/sustain/index.htm From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Dec 18 16:55:35 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:55:35 -0800 Subject: [conspire] pixma printers In-Reply-To: <20051217223740.32583.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20051217223740.32583.qmail@web60815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20051219005535.GB7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bruce Coston (jane_ikari at yahoo.com): > this is the 2nd refill where my pixma 3000 is dumping gobs of ink that splotch the pages. Was it Daniel who got some experience messing around inside a pixma printer? not as urgent as it could be because I have ross's old canon as a 2nd printer for hi -er quality printing and a friend has my pixma 2000 : does anybody know how to rig a continuous print system cheap ? No, I don't, but it's funny that you should mention Canon's PIXMA series. A sometime CABAL attendee wrote me off-list to consult me on driver problems with his. (He did conclude later that a PIXMA iP90 was a _bad_ choice, and took it back and got an HP DeskJet 450ci, instead.) Here's the relevant portion of my reply to his trouble report: I'd say: Take it back, unless you are looking for a major technical challenge, and possibly a great deal of frustration, and possibly still failing after all of that. Sometimes, people who are really determined to salvage a questionable purchase like that will resort to the proprietary Linux print drivers from the German firm TurboPrint, http://www.turboprint.de/ (English-language site at http://www.turboprint.info/) . As you'll see on that Web site, they do not yet claim support for the PIXMA iP90. I suppose, if you were desperate, you could write to them and ask if they think they'll have a functional driver soon. This Web forum had a post from some someone in that boat, except concerning a Canon PIXMA ip 1600: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-76448.html Today i got a reply from turboprint.de. They said something like this: (translated from german) "We plan a driver at around the end of the year. With this modern printers from Canon, its is hard to get the documentation for those so its not sure yet if the driver is realiseable" I brought the printer back today and got a HP. Check www.linuxprinting.org for Hardware compatibility. That gentleman's posting was dated Oct. 28, 2005. Alternatively, you could attempt to extract the CUPS PPD file from the driver Canon provides for use on Mac OS X, and kludge that into Linux. But I've never attempted that stunt, and don't know how feasible it is. Again, I'd class that as a desparation tactic. Basically, what you did was encounter a very common pitfall: You went to Fry's to buy a printer without bringing _with you_ notes or printouts concerning which printers are well supported in Linux. Sometimes, you can get lucky with this approach, but your luck did not pan out with this printer. Double-checking about Canon's PIXMA series online, it's possible to discern some warning signs: 1. It's specialised as a photo printer. 2. It's very inexpensive. 3. It's a fairly new model (introduced Jan. 2005). To explain: Printer companies regard any special tricks used to get super-high colour and image quality out of inexpensive inkjets as valuable proprietary information, and so are disinclined to cooperate with the open source community, and in some cases might go out of their way to make the techniques difficult to reverse-engineer. It might even be impossible to do regular black-ink text printing without mastering those secret techniques. The more inexpensive the printer, the more the manufacturer will be inclined to regard any small proprietary-information advantage as vital to their competitive effort. The newer the printer (and printer series), the less opportunity the open source community -- or even TurboPrint, who unlike open source coders are willing to sign non-disclosure agreements -- will have had to figure out any secret tricks. If I were you, I'd print out (or take extensive notes from) Linuxprinting.org's "Suggested Printers' page, http://www.linuxprinting.org/suggested.html, and shop again sticking strictly to what's listed on that page. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Dec 18 21:27:36 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 21:27:36 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Usage of NDAs in legal flummery In-Reply-To: <20051215185306.GQ20384@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051215185306.GQ20384@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051219052736.GA30955@linuxmafia.com> I wrote (in my draft letter, that I ended up not sending): > There was, however, one thing you said that concerned me: You asserted > that a non-disclosure agreement I signed 2 1/2 years ago is still in > force, and would apply to our telephone conversation that followed. Follow-up discussion of this micro-thread occurred during Saturday's SVLUG installfest. Some folks wanted to know (roughly speaking) if NDAs you sign are, generally, enforceable. One attendee wanted to know if NDAs required by an employer automatically _expire_ when you leave a firm. Yes, they're as a general rule enforceable. _No_, there's nothing requiring that employment-related NDAs expire when you leave a firm. Beware! Mandatory disclaimer: Again, I'm not an attorney, and so it's illegal for me to give people specific legal advice on their specific situations. So, I am not doing so: If you need legal advice about some situation you're in, _please_ consult an attorney. (An initial consult isn't even very expensive.) Let's take that latter question first, since it's a really important point: Employers' NDAs, especially for those of us in the technology field, are in fact _particularly_ aimed at dissuading people who've just left employment from blabbing proprietary information. On the other hand, it's a fast-moving world, and, y'know, secrets just don't keep. Any employer who imagines there's any legitimate point in keeping apron-strings on ex-employees for more than, oh, six months is either deluded, a power-mad freak, or is in some very unusual line of business (e.g., you're agreeing to have custody of the secret formula for Coca-Cola, or are becoming a spy for the CIA). So: Suggestion #0: Be damned careful what you sign. Suggestion #1: Verify, _before_ you sign it, that any NDA, non-compete agreement, or proprietary inventions agreement has a sunset clause making it expire no more than six months after your business relationship ends. If it's missing, propose adding one. If you don't hear a _really good_ reason why it shouldn't be added, say no and walk away. Over the weekend, I've been trying to remember things I've signed in the past, including NDAs, non-compete clauses, and proprietary invention agrements at a couple of dot-coms I worked for during the boom. The dot-coms required agreements of all employees that I knew from my own legal research to be mostly bogus and unenforceable. The CEO of one of them explained to me that this was an iron-clad requirement imposed by the VCs, and I do believe him. I signed -- including the laughably fraudulent paper that toothlessly claimed the firm would own everything I did, even when I did it at home on my own time. When I told a group of fellow dot-commers about that bogosity, they doubted my word. I posted: ----- Here's the reference on proprietary inventions agreements, covered in California by Labor Code section 2870-2872 (i.e., by statute law): http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/lab/2870-2872.html In brief: Regardless of what anything you sign purports to establish to the contrary, whatever you create entirely on your own time with your own resources is YOURS. Caveat: The burden of proof that you meet those conditions is on you. Here are references on non-compete clauses, covered in California by Business and Professions Code section 16600 (another body of statute law): http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/bpc/16600-16607.html http://www.fed.org/onlinemag/Feb00/tips.htm In brief: No employment-related covenant not to compete can shut you out of your trade or profession, regardless of what you signed (except where you owned the business that "employed" you and are now selling it, or are dissolving a partnership and making such an agreement with your fellow partners). Those covenants are legally void. [RM adds, 2005-12-18: Note that that's in _California_. In some other states, e.g., Vermont, there are horror stories of people being legally barred from their own professions for _years_ after leaving one employer, because of a non-compete agreement.] It would be nicely subtle -- polite but clear -- to hand in a printout of the applicable statute to HR Dept. attached to your signed non-compete and proprietary-inventions agreements, upon being hired. For one thing, it's likely that most managers are unaware that such instruments are toothless. ------ It is also a Federal offence for employers to sanction employees for _comparing salaries_, per the National Labor Relations Act, http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode29/usc_sec_29_00000157----000-.html http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode29/usc_sec_29_00000158----000-.html This comes as a surprise to almost everyone I inform about it, since just about every employer I've ever encountered will tell you with a straight face that it's a "termination offence" to discuss compensation with your peers. In their defence, the managers I've heard that from believe it to be a fundamental right of employers, and are apparently ignorant of the law. (I am _not_ saying it's necessarily a good idea to carry out such activity, merely that firms' prohibility of it is conclusively illegal and can be themselves reversed and sanctioned by filings with the NLRB, if such is ever necessary.) Getting back to suggestions #0 and 1: Employers have a legitimate reason to be concerned about you quitting (or getting laid off) and taking your knowledge down the street to their competitors. California law mostly (with a carve-out for "trade secrets" in a few narrowly prescribed areas) says "Tough. Live with it." I.e., unlike the case in Vermont and many other states, any agreement that tries to retrain you from your trade or business is specifically _void_ by California law. NDAs try to operate against that statute (Business and Professions Code ?16600), and it's apparently a tricky area of employment law for that reason. But you should assume they're for real: Read them carefully; if they don't expire automatically (by specific terms to that effect) some reasonable time after you leave employment, that really should be a deal-breaker, in my view. You're not a serf; you shouldn't have to sign documents proclaiming yourself one. Ink in a six-month expiration clause, and don't sign without it. A couple of years ago, a former co-worker approached me, wanting to talk about his idea for a Linux-oriented business. It would involve a couple of book-writing contracts, and a lucrative consulting business that would emerge from the books and lectures. He was eager to talk over particulars with me -- but said he could not safely do so until I'd signed his NDA. I looked over the NDA. It stipulated that there was a business opportunity that would be discussed with me that was deemed valuable proprietary information. In signing it, I would agree that I would not disclose his idea to others outside my business relationship with him, and that I would not myself try to exploit the business opportunity on my own. In the event that I didn't pursue the opportunity, the NDA (and non-compete) _did_ have a six-month time-out. I was a little wary, so I stopped and talked with him: I pointed out that I operated a largely Linux/BSD-oriented consultancy, and did a variety of work for small and medium-sized businesses. I described several of my recent client engagements, including one that involved migrating an accounting system over to Linux. I stressed that I'd be extremely annoyed if his "business opportunity" turned out to be something I was already doing, and that his non-compete had bloody well better not try to bar me from any part of my own business. I signed. He then told me about his brainstorm: Write a couple of books describing in technical fine detail how to migrate firms over from MS-Windows business applications to Linux ones. His idea of the division of labour was: I wrote the books, with the two of us listed as co-authors. He and I then would split the profits from resulting consulting opportunities on an, oh, 70/30 basis or something like that. You guys would have been proud of me: I didn't commit homicide, no limbs were cut off. I very politely declined the "business opportunity", wished him the very best of luck, and reminded him that a lot of my ongoing business was in _precisely_ that area. Six months later, the agreement expired, and no harm came of it, but it occurred to me in retrospect that I should have insisted on attaching to the NDA/non-compete a list of the sorts of activities that were already part of my business, and a statement that none of those, or anything naturally emerging from those, should be considered a violation of the agreement. (I'd forgotten about Business and Professions Code ?16600, at the time.) So, what I'm saying is, here I'm a pretty careful guy in legal matters, and yet even I didn't heed Suggestion #0 quite well enough. Do be careful out there. About NDA enforceability: As I was saying, yes, NDAs in general _are_ enforceable as contracts. If you try to ignore one, you can be hauled into civil court on for the tort of breach of contract, and either forced to pay damages (a remedy at law) or be subject to an injunction (a remedy at equity). As I was saying in my earlier message, the NDA that $EXECUTIVE claims I signed 2 1/2 years ago would have been unenforceable for lack of one of the required elements for any contract to be valid: "consideration". $FIRM could have said "We'll give you $1 for signing this NDA", and that would have been enough -- but $FIRM hadn't done bupkes for me, as it turned out. (And, by the way, there is California caselaw clarifying that it's not "consideration" to tell an employee "Sign this and we'll let you keep your job." There would have to be something additional given to the employee in exchange.) If the contract _had_ been validly formed, then the law _in general_ doesn't interfere. The assumption is that, if you're a competent adult, any foolish commitments you enter into, in a contract, are your own damned problem. (California exceptions include the aforementioned ban on contracts locking you out of your own profession, and Labor Code section 2870-2872's voiding of overreaching proprietary inventions agreements.) So, beware: The law will not in general protect you against being bound by something ill-advised that you signed in a hurry. Take NDAs and other such things home to read them at your leisure. If there's anything that raises your eyebrow, or anything missing, make sure you cover it and settle the matter _in writing_ (not like me merely _talking_ about problems with the ex-colleague). From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Dec 18 22:38:17 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:38:17 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Re: Usage of NDAs in legal flummery In-Reply-To: <20051219052736.GA30955@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051215185306.GQ20384@linuxmafia.com> <20051219052736.GA30955@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051219063817.GA1770@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > [RM adds, 2005-12-18: Note that that's in _California_. In some other > states, e.g., Vermont, there are horror stories of people being legally > barred from their own professions for _years_ after leaving one employer, > because of a non-compete agreement.] Er, _not_ Vermont. Sorry, Vermonters! Apologies for that slight to the Green Mountain State. I meant to cite that state's considerably more crazed neighbours, over in New Hampshire. Here's the anecdote I had in mind, quoted from a much earlier discussion elsewhere: My wife Deirdre used to work under the MIS director at PC Connection, which is in New Hampshire. The director's husband also worked in the computer industry (in sales), was _laid off_(!), and then was successfully sued for working at a firm that was vaguely in the same industry, on grounds of violating his non-compete clause. The new employer was in a different state, even! The court barred him for accepting employment in any sales job in the computer industry, for the duration of his non-compete term -- enforcing the terms of the non-compete clause exactly. So, he ended up taking a forced three-year vacation with only minimal side-jobs. Most states won't enforce non-compete clauses against laid off employees, if (unlike in California) they're regarded as enforceable at all: New Hampshire leans towards the lunatic fringe of anarcho-capitalism. (Yeah, well, "Live free or die", indeed. Feh.) From jla1200 at netzero.net Mon Dec 19 12:44:38 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:44:38 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy Message-ID: <001701c604dd$0877f2c0$0ab95545@oemcomputer> Rick or Daniel Daniel or Rick Daniel said add L modem ttyS0 to the file etc/udev/links.conf .I have not tried this fix yet. Is there a /dev/xxx that goes in the second column with that? Ls -l modem indicates a link is present in the /dev directory. The Netzero logon dialog boxes do not contain any way to specify /dev/modem or dev/ttyS0. Just a radio button to specify a hayes compatible modem.There is no way to tell NZ that it is an external serial modem . I.m having trouble getting a file that Windows 98 can read from OpenOffice.org. (.odt,.swd,.doc,.txt,.sxw,.sdw.). Otherwise I would send my terminal output. From phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com Mon Dec 19 14:10:20 2005 From: phaedrus at sasquatch-infotech.com (Jeff Frasca) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:10:20 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy In-Reply-To: <001701c604dd$0877f2c0$0ab95545@oemcomputer> References: <001701c604dd$0877f2c0$0ab95545@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20051219221020.GA1249@sasquatch-infotech.com> On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 12:44:38PM -0800, John Andrews wrote: > Rick or Daniel > Daniel or Rick > Daniel said add L modem ttyS0 to the file etc/udev/links.conf .I have > not tried this fix yet. > Is there a /dev/xxx that goes in the second column with that? > Ls -l modem indicates a link is present in the /dev directory. > The Netzero logon dialog boxes do not contain any way to specify /dev/modem > or dev/ttyS0. Just a radio button to specify a hayes compatible modem.There > is no way to tell NZ that it is an external serial modem . > I.m having trouble getting a file that Windows 98 can read from > OpenOffice.org. (.odt,.swd,.doc,.txt,.sxw,.sdw.). Otherwise I would send my > terminal output. Save it as a .txt file and then run these commands on the file from the command line (I'll assume the file is called "file.txt", replace as appropriate ;): $ perl -pe "s/\n/\r\n/" file.txt > file.dos $ mv file.dos file.txt This will convert the unix new line characters (what perl thinks '\n' means) to MS-style new lines, which are really two characters (and a terrible design), carriage return/newline (the \r\n in the perl one-liner). Old MacOS (version <= 9) used just carriage return for their newlines (no worse a choice than the Unix style newlines--Microsoft's problem is they used two characters. It screws up the basic programming interface for opening and writing to files). If you want to go the opposite direction (windows to Linux), get the files on the Linux side and use $ perl -pe "s/\r//" file.txt > file.unix for the first statement from above. Oh, and usually, text files are the best thing to play with. Everyone on the list can read, write and mess with them. They can be easily added into emails (which should just be text files themselves), and not all of us have readers for the fancier file types (for instance, I don't have OO.o installed, and I do not intend to install it). Jeff -- From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 20 14:54:53 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 14:54:53 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy In-Reply-To: <001701c604dd$0877f2c0$0ab95545@oemcomputer> References: <001701c604dd$0877f2c0$0ab95545@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <20051220225453.GJ7646@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Andrews (jla1200 at netzero.net): > Daniel or Rick > Daniel said add L modem ttyS0 to the file etc/udev/links.conf .I have > not tried this fix yet. > Is there a /dev/xxx that goes in the second column with that? As Daniel said, the line for /etc/udev/links.conf (note leading slash, which is _very important_) should be: L modem ttyS0 That's an instruction to the udev subsystem, at boot time, to create (symbolic) link "modem" pointing to special file "ttyS0" inside the /dev directory. Let me give a little background explanation, for the benefit of those who are curious. If you're not, you're most welcome to skip whatever bores you. ;-> "udev" is a new software subsystem for the Linux kernel, introduced in the 2.6 series (approximately), for the purpose of managing what's in the /dev filesystem tree. Ubuntu/Kubuntu uses it, on account of its default 2.6.x kernel. The /dev tree contains funny-looking files (that aren't regular files at all; hence the term "special file") intended to serve strictly as entry points to hardware that can then be used for that purpose by the kernel and all other software. For example, serial ports ttyS0 through ttyS4 (aka COM1 through COM5) are addressed with "major device number" = 4, and "minor device numbers" = 64 through 68: :r! ls -l /dev/ttyS* crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 4, 64 2004-09-18 04:52 /dev/ttyS0 crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 4, 65 2004-09-18 04:52 /dev/ttyS1 crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 4, 66 2004-09-18 04:52 /dev/ttyS2 crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 4, 67 2004-09-18 04:52 /dev/ttyS3 crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 4, 68 2004-09-18 04:52 /dev/ttyS4 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^- filename | | | | | | | | |- last modified time | | | | | | | |- last modifed date | | | | | | |-minor device number | | | | | |-major device number | | | | |-owning group | | | |-owning user | | |-total number of hard links to this file | |-rights mask |-type of file (regular, directory, symlink, character, block, named pipe, socket) (If those columns don't line up, then you really should stop reading e-mail / newsgroups in variable-space typefaces. Use a fixed-space typeface such as Courier.) On old-style Unixey systems, /dev's contents are completely static: It gets populated at the time you install your operating system with special files (block and character device files) corresponding to every type of hardware the OS designers anticipate you might ever connect to your system. Note: The existence of a special file doesn't _in any way_ guarantee that the corresponding hardware exists, or that it's enabled in the motherboard BIOS setup, or that your kernel has a driver for it. (I mention that matter because it's a frequent stumbling block, during Linux diagnosis: "What do you mean, I need to verify that the serial driver is loaded into my kernel, and that serial support is turned on in the motherboard setup program? I've checked that /dev/ttyS0 exists. Doesn't that means it's supported?") In roughly the Linux 2.4 series, an optional automated subsystem emerged for populating /dev with special files for _only_ hardware actually present and driver-supported on your system, "devfs". This was used (by default) by only one mass-market distribution, Mandrakelinux, now known as Mandriva Linux -- but also Gentoo Linux and the LNX-BBC micro-distribution. However, there were some problems and limitations with it, the most serious of which was its maintainer vanishing for a couple of years in a row. As a result, Greg Kroah-Hartman invented "udev" as a replacement, in May 2003: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev.html "udev" is still mysterious to most Linux users, even technical ones, in part because most Linux systems still use 2.4.x kernels. (For example, it's _really_ new to me, personally.) It has several major advantages over everything that's come before: o It finally allows persistent, meaningful device names. o It eliminates the need for a static map of device numbers. o It emits D-BUS messaging information to tell other software about what devices the kernel knows (or has just learned) about. o It's commendably tiny, and operates almost entirely outside the kernel. We old fogies really _should_ by this late date have converted all our Linux systems over to 2.6.x kernels, read up on udev + hotfix + nameif + D-BUS, and purged our minds of the dumb assuption of static /dev contents that are manually edited by the sysadmin. I haven't, so I'm behind the curve, and feel bad about this. Now, John: Daniel originally created a /dev/modem symbolic link ("symlink") pointing to /dev/ttyS0 on your system for the Netzero dialer's benefit, but apparently warned you, at the time, that because udev creates the /dev tree from scratch every time you reboot, his manual creation of /dev/modem wasn't going to suffice over the long term, and you'd have to convince udev to include that symlink in its boot-up tasklist. The /etc/udev/links.conf file is one place where a sysadmin can specify exactly such a tasklist -- both additional special files to create within /dev and symbolic links to put there. Another is /etc/udev/rules.d/10-local.rules , which you could create and add a line like: KERNEL="ttyS0", SYMLINK="modem" > Ls -l modem indicates a link is present in the /dev directory. John, it's a little unsetlling to see you type things like "Ls", since Linux filenames are case-sensitive and the correct command name is "ls". Seeing that sort of thing -- and, again, I mean no personal criticism -- inevitably forces technical observers to wonder how accurately you are reporting other crucial details. Bitter experience has taught us that, when the user isn't reporting details accurately, helpers often end up wasting their and the user's time going on wild goose-chases. Would you please get in the habit of double-checking things like the above, and transcribing them _verbatim_? You can do this either using notepaper or copy-and-paste (if possible) or logging commands to file using /usr/bin/script. (Typing "script" commences the logging of all command-lien activity from that point forward into an ASCII text file, default name "typescript". Typing "exit" ends logging.) You can move files between computers using a DOS-formatted floppy: $ mcopy typescript a: ...or by copying the file onto a USB flash drive. To illustrate what I suggest, imagine that I wanted to show you what "/dev/modem" pointed to on my system. Then, I would do the following and transcribe or copy it verbatim to this message: $ ls -l /dev/modem lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Dec 17 07:03 /dev/modem -> ttyS0 $ Why don't you do that, as an exercise -- and to better inform us? Also, because udev recreates /dev from scratch upon each reboot, please clarify, if /dev/modem _does_ exist, that you haven't created it manually since the most recent startup. Please note that my above example illustrates my dictum that you should assume our motto is "Show me" (the state of Missouri's motto): Instead of _telling_ the mailing list what /dev/modem points to, I _showed_ it. (Don't worry if your command prompt is not just "$": It probably will be something more complex, such as your username, the hostname, and part or all of the current directory. This is normal. I used "$" just for simplicity.) > The Netzero logon dialog boxes do not contain any way to specify /dev/modem > or dev/ttyS0. Just a radio button to specify a hayes compatible modem.There > is no way to tell NZ that it is an external serial modem . OK, so Daniel's surmise that it's hard-coded for something, almost certainly /dev/modem, is correct. > I.m having trouble getting a file that Windows 98 can read from > OpenOffice.org. (.odt,.swd,.doc,.txt,.sxw,.sdw.). Otherwise I would send my > terminal output. Please see my prior e-mail's suggestions: It's very difficult to help you when you don't detail what _specifically_ you tried, but only say you're "having trouble" or that something "doesn't work". Remember: If you cannot transcribe your terminal sessions using software, you can always do it the old-fashioned way with notepaper. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 20 16:27:36 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:27:36 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy In-Reply-To: <20051220225453.GJ7646@linuxmafia.com> References: <001701c604dd$0877f2c0$0ab95545@oemcomputer> <20051220225453.GJ7646@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051221002736.GM7646@linuxmafia.com> Eh, nasty typos. We hates them, we does. > We old fogies really _should_ by this late date have converted all our > Linux systems over to 2.6.x kernels, read up on udev + hotfix + nameif > + D-BUS... ^^^^^^ "hotplug". The udev and hotplug subsystems work closely together, in 2.6-based systems. That's part of the magic of, say, making sure two USB printers can be clearly distinguished no matter in what order you connect them, and making sure that your digital camera always gets mounted as /dev/camera, etc. > ...and purged our minds of the dumb assuption of static /dev ^^ (Bah.) > John, it's a little unsetlling... Not to mention unsettling. > (Typing "script" commences the logging of all command-lien activity ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And command-line activity! I clearly need more coffee. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 20 22:31:08 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 22:31:08 -0800 Subject: [conspire] NDA Addendum page Message-ID: <20051221063108.GT9804@linuxmafia.com> After hearing (in confidence) yet another horror story of an unreasonable non-disclosure agreement (NDA) suddenly sprung on people without prior warning, in a situation that didn't even involve a business relationship, I've drafted this thing: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/nda.html The idea is: You print out a copy, scrawl at the bottom of the NDA "Addendum A incorporated by reference" just above where your signature will go, and hand in the sheet with your signed NDA. They can of course tell you it's not OK. Depending, you might walk -- or discuss which of your terms aren't OK and why (and why it's OK for _them_ to spring a surprise legal instrument on you, but turnabout is somehow not fair play). Like all my other writings in the knowledgebase (except as noted), that page is freely licensed under Creative Commons's Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 licence, a permissive copyleft licence. Please modify to suit. (You could just line out and ink in a replacement for the sentence in item #3 where I cite my line of business -- substituting your own -- if you never otherwise create your own modified version. Also, of course you might alter the expiration to match the details of your situation -- but there should _be_ one, anyway!) Reminder: NDAs can be _dangerous_ to your independence and livelihood, if they don't have a suitably narrow scope and duration. This crap about "confidential information" needing to be stifled by force of law is ridiculous in the computer field, if nowhere else. Six months is about the reasonable maximum life of any secret, there. (Obligatory note: Neither this mail nor my Web pages are a substitute for compentent professional legal help, if you're in a situation that requires it. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.) From rossbernheim at speakeasy.net Tue Dec 20 23:02:06 2005 From: rossbernheim at speakeasy.net (Ross Bernheim) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:02:06 -0800 Subject: [conspire] NDA Addendum page In-Reply-To: <20051221063108.GT9804@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051221063108.GT9804@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <620A7929-B2E8-4B0C-B17D-B25B7B05B1F7@speakeasy.net> Rick, Lovely stuff. A very fitting solution to the problem. Ross On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:31 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > After hearing (in confidence) yet another horror story of an > unreasonable non-disclosure agreement (NDA) suddenly sprung on people > without prior warning, in a situation that didn't even involve a > business relationship, I've drafted this thing: > > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/nda.html > > The idea is: You print out a copy, scrawl at the bottom of the NDA > "Addendum A incorporated by reference" just above where your signature > will go, and hand in the sheet with your signed NDA. They can of > course > tell you it's not OK. Depending, you might walk -- or discuss which > of your terms aren't OK and why (and why it's OK for _them_ to > spring a > surprise legal instrument on you, but turnabout is somehow not fair > play). > > Like all my other writings in the knowledgebase (except as noted), > that > page is freely licensed under Creative Commons's Attribution- > ShareAlike > 2.5 licence, a permissive copyleft licence. Please modify to suit. From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Dec 21 09:26:35 2005 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 09:26:35 -0800 Subject: [conspire] NDA Addendum page In-Reply-To: <20051221063108.GT9804@linuxmafia.com> References: <20051221063108.GT9804@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20051221172635.GB27621@zgp.org> As long as we're on the subject of unreasonable NDAs, here is another scary one (from a company we all know and love), along with some informative comments from a lawyer on the tricky parts. SCO NDA Offers Little Information, Much Risk http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6923 -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ dmarti at zgp.org From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Wed Dec 21 22:08:33 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:08:33 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Darlene's VA Linux 420 References: Message-ID: On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:56:03 -0700, Darlene Wallach wrote: > Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: >> You know, you could head this issue off at the pass with a newer BIOS. I >> found the specs for the 420 here: > > Daniel, > > Thank you for responding and sending the links! > > After further research into my system using a script, > system-info, written by Karsten M. Self, > . My BIOS supports ACPI, I have > a CA81020A, which is listed as an updated BIOS. > > It is taking me quite some time to go thru menuconfig > and answer/select the options. > > Darlene Instructions on BIOS flashing that board are at: http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/standardbios.htm The BIOS ChangeLog is at: ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/3995/ENG/p08-0017.pdf The BIOS itself (in a standard ZIPfile, despite the .exe) is at: ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/3995/ENG/CAAP08BI.exe The last time you brought the machine to CABAL, it had this problem: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139307 The manual for the 420 is at: http://web.archive.org/web/20010724022112/valinux.com/products/420/420_Users_Guide.tar.gz?&state_info=.US1P1-59726 Pay special attention to pages 56-59, especially the part about setpci. You wanted to know how to boot it from SCSI. An educated guess would be that it has a Symbios 8951U card, but we'll double-check that next time you bring the machine to CABAL. The manual for that card is at: http://www.lsilogic.com/files/docs/techdocs/storage_stand_prod/PCISCSICont/HABs/8951u.pdf If the Ctrl-C hotkey does not work as described there, it may be necessary to flash the SCSI BIOS. Instructions for doing so are at: http://www.lsilogic.com/files/support/ssp/sdms/Bios/FLASH.TXT The SCSI BIOS itself is at: http://www.lsilogic.com/files/support/ssp/sdms/Bios/lsi_bios.zip From wallachd at earthlink.net Thu Dec 22 00:13:45 2005 From: wallachd at earthlink.net (Darlene Wallach) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 00:13:45 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Darlene's VA Linux 420 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43AA6039.9090006@earthlink.net> Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: > On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:56:03 -0700, Darlene Wallach wrote: > > >>Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: >> >>>You know, you could head this issue off at the pass with a newer BIOS. I >>>found the specs for the 420 here: >> >>Daniel, >> >>Thank you for responding and sending the links! >> >>After further research into my system using a script, >>system-info, written by Karsten M. Self, >>. My BIOS supports ACPI, I have >>a CA81020A, which is listed as an updated BIOS. >> >>It is taking me quite some time to go thru menuconfig >>and answer/select the options. >> >>Darlene > > > Instructions on BIOS flashing that board are at: > > http://developer.intel.com/design/motherbd/standardbios.htm > > The BIOS ChangeLog is at: > > ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/3995/ENG/p08-0017.pdf > > The BIOS itself (in a standard ZIPfile, despite the .exe) is at: > > ftp://aiedownload.intel.com/df-support/3995/ENG/CAAP08BI.exe > > The last time you brought the machine to CABAL, it had this problem: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=139307 > > The manual for the 420 is at: > > http://web.archive.org/web/20010724022112/valinux.com/products/420/420_Users_Guide.tar.gz?&state_info=.US1P1-59726 > > Pay special attention to pages 56-59, especially the part about setpci. > You wanted to know how to boot it from SCSI. An educated guess would be > that it has a Symbios 8951U card, but we'll double-check that next time > you bring the machine to CABAL. The manual for that card is at: > > http://www.lsilogic.com/files/docs/techdocs/storage_stand_prod/PCISCSICont/HABs/8951u.pdf > > If the Ctrl-C hotkey does not work as described there, it may be necessary > to flash the SCSI BIOS. Instructions for doing so are at: > > http://www.lsilogic.com/files/support/ssp/sdms/Bios/FLASH.TXT > > The SCSI BIOS itself is at: > > http://www.lsilogic.com/files/support/ssp/sdms/Bios/lsi_bios.zip Daniel, Thank you very much! I just read this so I haven't looked at the links you sent. I really appreciate the time you spent gathering this info and sending it!!! Darlene -- World Centric Fair Trade & Eco Store http://www.worldcentric.org/store/ We have created and live in a world of gross social and economic inequalities[1] and are at the same time severely impacting[2] the natural eco-systems and regenerating bio-capacity of the planet. Our every action has an impact on the well-being of our planet and our everyday decisions[3] can help create a better world for all. In keeping with this fact and our vision, the World Centric Fair Trade/Eco Online Store provides everyday consumption choices, which can help minimize social & economic inequalities, reduce the impact of our consumption on the environment and help create a better and sustainable world. [1] http://www.worldcentric.org/stateworld/socialjustice.htm [2] http://www.worldcentric.org/stateworld/environment.htm [3] http://www.worldcentric.org/sustain/index.htm From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 22 22:11:32 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:11:32 -0800 Subject: [conspire] More on legal follies and software: Barracuda v. merger Message-ID: <20051223061132.GN9804@linuxmafia.com> Here's another tale of legal follies using fake names (and, for all you know, fake facts). As they might have said on Dragnet, the legal issues are true; only reality has been changed to protect the innocent. I always explain that I could cite either names or anedotes but not both; the anecdotes are more interesting. However, if these misadventures aren't exciting enough without public disclosure of real names, as some have complained, then please feel free to go forth unto businessland, and generate some calamities of your own. Louise is an accomplished C developer and sysadmin in Miami, who formed a team with three other coders (the "Gang of Four") to help out a rapidly growing, services-rich Internet hosting company, Crunchco, that they all use -- by rapidly prototyping and coding a much-needed C codebase, Barracuda, that they intend to make available free of change to Crunchco, filling a high-visibility hole (as a result of disappearance of a third-party product) in Crunchco's offerings to customers. Harvey, founding CEO at Crunchco, is busy trying to staff up Crunchco and consolidate its too-scattered and slightly chaotic & overworked operations, drawing them together to new offices near where he lives in Minneapolis. Harvey _especially_ wants to hire Louise, in part because they're rapidly migrating their servers off HP/UX to Debian, because they have almost no Debian expertise, and because Louise is a Debianista. He makes an oral deal (if a somewhat fuzzy one) to hire her, and tells her she should immediately wind up her commitments to existing clients. She starts turning down new prospects, e.g., a $10,000 local consulting gig, to keep herself available. Barracuda gets close to deployment status, and seems likely to be a valuable property. The Gang of Four line up plans to form an LLC (limited liability corporation) to licence out Barracuda as a proprietary software product, with Crunchco intended as the first official "Barracuda chum" -- a set of favoured, free-of-charge or low-cost customers. Harvey arranges to meet with Louise and the others at conferences and on business trips; he sets up flying two of them out to Minneapolis HQ in March. At the same time, Louise and the others hear of something else, essentially unrelated, that's approaching at the same time: Harvey has been putting together, during those same business trips, a _merger_ deal with Engulfco, a Java shop of about the same size, in Nashville. Engulfco has more cash; Louise's estimate is that, in substance, it's really more an outright acquisition than a merger, but these PR characterisation games are pretty common.[1] The merger proceeds: It's to result in a firm called, in a fit of delirious optimism, Synergistic Engineering[2], with Engulfco CEO Sally remaining in the resulting firm's CEO spot, and Harvey moving to VP of Engineering. The firm picks up the cost of flying Louise and other new hires up to Minnesota for a week, to sign them on. Despite having the typical Floridian's bad luck walking on frozen sidewalks, Louise enjoys finally meeting her future co-workers and hobnobbing with Harvey, who among other things hands her (and one of the other Gang of Four members, who is likewise to be hired) Cruchco's proprietary inventions agreement as a necessary initial step for her to get hired. She signs. Things seem a little haphazard, but she knows from experience that there's a lot of chaos and missed cues at startups. It's nothing personal; you just deal with it. Nobody's yet done an offer letter. She expects a pretty good salary, because she's of proven high value to Crunchco, but making something happen seems to need a kick. So, she sends an e-mail to Ron, her intended future boss, reminding him that this needs to be taken care of. Ron seems a bit disoriented by the question, and kicks it over to Sally. Sally replies back saying: "Hmm, I don't know if we can hire you at this date. Maybe in a few months, if we get additional funding, and if we really need a Barrucuda maintainer on staff, which we're not sure we will." Louise is understandably peeved: She's been made a clear offer of employment, albeit one with some vagueness, by Harvey, has started turning down other business based on their request that she do so, and has shlepped 2000 miles into the northern winter -- only to be told by some clown in Nashville that it's not happening. She has to wonder: Is there a complete breakdown in communication between Harvey and Sally? Do those Java weenies in Nashville simply not understand, unlike the better-clued Crunchco crowd, exactly how much the firm needs her talents? (It later turned out that the answer was "Yes" to both -- but that _that_ wasn't the full story, either.) So, Louise carefully writes a reply outlining the extent of Crunchco commitments to her, and the fact that her role is hardly to be confined to, or even principally concern, Barracuda. She clarifies that she can't sit around and wait for job opportunities, and names a date by which it'd have to occur or be written off -- and mentions that Barracuda's direction of course remains in the Gang of Four's hands, _not_ Engulfco/Synergistic's. Sally sends IM to Louise asking Louise to call her. They talk: Sally claims that Louise has already, inherently, signed over all her rights to Barracuda, when she signed her Crunchco proprietary inventions agreement, a couple of days ago, and that Engulfco/Synergistic now owns it outright, by virtue of owning Crunchco. Sally says she knows this because of comments by someone at Crunchco about Barracuda, to the effect that Engulfco would be "buying" Barracuda as part of the merger deal. In any event, Synergistic doesn't have the cash flow for more staff at this time, unless and until Louise can find and bring in a sufficiently compelling revenue model for Synergistic's property, Barracuda. However, this is not Sally's lucky day. This is one of those rare occasions when not only is an executive (Sally) reaching beyond her firm's rights out of ignorance (which is _very_ common), but she also has the poor fortune to try this on someone who _knows the law_. Louise now (very politely) lowers the boom on her. Sally has made several severe errors: 1. Crunchco never owned Barracuda's copyright. There is a bulletproof trail of documentation of the Gang of Four's title. 2. The proprietary inventions agreement was explicitly incidental to employment -- which never happened. In fact, Louise has never received anything that can be pointed to as "valuable consideration" as a required element of any contract. 3. Even if it were valid, that proprietary inventions agreement would give Cruchco a claim only to the copyright on _new_ work Louise performed within the scope of her employment, under the Copyright Act's "work for hire" rule. 4. Actually, come to mention that, Sally has completely misunderstood the "work for hire" rule.[3] 5. According to the Copyright Act, for the Gang of Four to give over their _existing_ title (concerning work to date), all would have had to sign a separate transfer-of-copyright legal paper, which never happened. 6. Only two of the four were ever even courted as potential employees, whereas all four members hold title. 7. And, by the way, Louise pointed out, somehow Crunchco and Engulfco seem to have missed the fact that one of the developers is a _minor_, and therefore would be entitled to void most contracts he might sign upon reaching adulthood, anyway. 8. There was considerable paperwork on the record from Harold speaking, both as Crunchco CEO and as Synergistic Engineering VP, of her employment as an agreed fact. 9. The entire series of events, taken as a whole, look difficult to distinguish from a fraudulent business scheme to cheat Louise out of her copyright title through false and misleading documents, erroneous and possibly illegal claims about ownership, and insincere business offers. During the rest of her day, Sally does the one truly intelligent thing she's managed during this entire fiasco: Being a Java weenie, she has contacts at Sun Microsystems, including the legal experts who helped establish the OpenSolaris project and its CDDL (open source) licensing. She calls them: They tell her she's completely wrong and right on the brink of big trouble. She immediately sets up a conference call with the Gang of Four. To Louise's surprise and relief, Sally acts on the basis of the Sun guys' advice, recognising that Synergistic had _no_ title to Barracuda, and adding that she regretted her prior errors on that point, which were an honest mistake. They close the call with the (genuine) possibility of future business dealings -- since the Gang still wants Synergistic as the first "Barracuda chum" -- but, alas, with little likelihood of a job for Louise. A few points about that anecdote: 1. There's a lot of honest, innocent chaos and fsck-ups inside the businesses that we imagine to be always running well: It's seldom really the SPECTRE/Blofeld model, where some guy with a Persian cat & monocle knows everything and occasionally hits a button to send some misbehaving underling to the flames below. More often, it's more like Chesterton's "The Man Who Was Thursday", where you have multiple people going around completely clueless about what each other is doing. Put another way, think of most businesses as collections of ganglia: The organisation has little in the way of a central nervous system. When the company does something unpleasant to you, it's often not only "not personal", but also largely _inadvertant_. 2. The reason we're not generally aware of this widespread craziness and patterns of screw-ups is that, typically, everyone involved is either an interested party or is under a non-disclosure agreement. So, all of it goes beneath the radar of the general public.[4] 3. Though business people often attempt to push others around with mind-numbing legal instruments and impressive-sounding notions about rights and responsibilities, most of the time they have no earthly idea what they're doing. The fact that they hit you up with a bullshit legal claim probably doesn't reflect evil, fraudulent intent: It's more often simple error and wishful thinking. 4. At the same time, they get in the _habit_ of that legal gamesmanship because it works -- against computerists, particularly, who generally are really easy to snow, and (being introverts and legally naive) slow to assert their interests. To quote J.P. Morgan, "The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights." 5. Business executives, especially those trying to build startups, tend to hand out wild promises in all directions -- far more than they'd _ever_ be able to fulfill -- just to keep things rolling. Although it should be obvious that the oral ones are flimsy, what may _not_ be so obvious is that the written ones aren't necessarily much more trustworthy. (It's likely that Sally was actually insincere in her claim that she hadn't known of any plan to put Louise on staff: That doesn't jibe with her being put through the new-hire process at the same time as several other hires. In fact, likely Sally simply decided Louise's salary as a veteran developer was too expensive, and unilaterally decided to renege on Harvey's commitments.) 6. Certain large business initiatives, including mergers and acquisitions, develop an inertia all of their own: If you're perceived as being in their way (as Louise was), you can find yourself subjected to some tactics of questionable sanity and legality, because you're seen as easier to move than is the thing you're blocking. Crazy talk directed at you by business people often has a perfectly rational underlying (financial, legal, regulatory) cause, that might just not be visible from your perspective. [1] See also: Electric Lichen. (Where are they, now that we need them?) [2] Conventional wisdom is that mergers and acquisitions in the tech field are even more risky than elsewhere, because so much of the acquired firms' value resides in the employees. Many such purchases have left the buyer holding an empty bag, when disaffected staff depart for elsewhere. [3] "Work for hire" is an exception in the Copyright Act and surrounding caselaw, to the general rule that, the moment you invent a creative work "in fixed form", you gain copyright title over it: 17 USC 101 and 201(b) says that, if you are an _employee_ and create something within the scope of your employment (_or_ if it's a specially ordered or commissioned work), title goes directly to the funder, not to you, unless there's an agreement to the contrary. This was a little vague; the matter was clarified in 1989 in the Supreme Court case of CCNV v. Reid (http://www2.tltc.ttu.edu/Cochran/Cases%20&%20Readings/Copyright-UNT/reid.htm). The term "employee", here, is not defined in the everyday-English sense, but rather uses the word's meaning from the area of law called "agency law". Whether you're _called_ an employee or not has _zero_ relevance. Employee vs. not an employee is decided according to three criteria, forming a picture that a court would evaluate, taken as a whole: o Control by the employer over the work. (E.g., does putative employer have right to dictate how, where, with what tools the work gets done?) o Control by employer over the employee. (E.g., does putative employer have right to dictate worker's schedule, assignments, method of payment, assignment or non-assignment of assistants?) o Status and conduct of employer. (E.g., does employer provide job benefits?) For a "specially ordered or commissioned work" to be work for hire, per 17 USC 101(1), there must be a written agreement to that effect, plus the work can be only in one of nine specifically listed categories: motion picture, other audiovisual work, translation, supplementary work, compilation, instructional text, test, answer for a test, or atlas. Louise politely pointed out that Crunchco had no claim to her copyright title under either provision. [4] Do you think there's a news story, every time a bank uncovers a multimillion dollar embezzlement? Not if the bank can help it. In fact, the culprits are often in a position to negotiate their keeping all or part of the theft, when caught -- if the sum is big enough: The bank's publicity exposure is worrisome enough that parting with the money is cheaper. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 23 11:02:54 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:02:54 -0800 Subject: [conspire] More about real-world legal conflict Message-ID: <20051223190253.GA10505@linuxmafia.com> [A friend was having me review a draft outline of a piece about non-disclosure agreements. This is an excerpt from some of my comments.] This is good as far as it goes, but it's a bit more black and white than I think the world really is. In fact, spending some time around corporate lawyers caused me to have an epiphany, one day: Businesses violate each others' (and individuals') legal rights all the time -- not because they intend to, but because it just happens. A lot of the work of a corporate counsel involves helping the company pick the lesser evil, apply balm to burned fingers, and apologise -- and in other cases bully some people; threaten, buy off, or stonewall/outbluff third parties. Let me tell you a story: I was the unofficial software-licensing effort at a company we'll call Venture Capital Linux, Inc. VCL published two variant forms of the Red Hat Linux distribution, including one that was specialised for NAS clusters. Like most medium-sized companies, VCL suffered endemic communications and coordination screw-ups between groups. The Engineering department did cooperative work under NDA with Truth Software of Palo Alto, backup specialists, and Network Fiascos of Emeryville, both of which firms provided VCL as confidential proprietary code some of their enhancements to the third-party GPLed ndmp network-backup utility -- intending it as strictly internal experimental code. But then, the Professional Services department grabbed that code off the internal CVS, made a binary i386 RPM, and bundled it into the downloadable NAS distribution on the exterior public ftp site. A few months later, a polite query arrived at VCL Technical Support from a coder at Mountain View NAS, politely asking to be furnished matching source for our ndmp code under the provisions of GPLv2. I asked Professional Services, whose VP said "Oh shit!" and referred me to Enginsering. Engineering's VP said "Oh shit!" and referred me to Jim, the corporate counsel. I sent Jim what I had. By the time I arrived at Jim's office, he already had sussed it all out and had the matter covered -- but I was curious, and needed to have it spelled out for me: Me: "But aren't we obligated to give the Mountain View guy what he asked for?" Jim: "Yes." Me: "But we're not going to do that?" Jim: "No." Me: "Isn't that a copyright infringement against the upstream ndmp authors?" Jim: "Yes." Me: "So, why aren't we going to give him the code?" Jim: "Because that would be breach of contract with our business partners, Truth Software and Network Fiascos, which would have severe and expensive consequences for us." Me: "Oh. What are we telling the Mountain View guy?" Jim: "That the modified ndmp was released by mistake, that it's now been withdrawn, and that we regret any inconvenience." Me: "What if he sues?" Jim: "He can't. He doesn't have standing." Me: "Oh, right. What if the upstream coders sue?" Jim: "In the first place, not likely, since they aren't even aware of this situation, and since they haven't been offended, and since the infringement has already been remedied. In the second place, without registering their copyrights with the Library of Congress, which they haven't done, they could sue only to enjoin further infringement, not for damages -- and there is no more infringement at this point. Even if they had registered, their recoverable damages would be keyed to the extent of their commercial loss, of which they've suffered none at all." Me: "So, basically, since we have to choose one tort or another, we pick the one that's pretty much harmless." Jim: "Right." Me: "OK, makes sense. Do I need to reply to the Mountain View guy?" Jim: "No. Legal is sending out that nice, short letter today. Leave it to us." The point is that this sort of thing happens all the time. Firms step on each others' toes, through screw-ups or because smaller interests and concerns got in the way of larger ones; the end-result is some sort of accomodation: Either someone's merely annoyed but not enough to act, or that firm gets a favour or payment or apology, or in extreme cases the firm is annoyed and self-righteous enough to sue for some form of remedy -- but not very often. The public isn't aware of 99% of this, because the parties simply don't publicise it. _NDAs_ get violated all the time, too. How many reviews or "previews" of prerelease software have you read? Only a tiny fraction of those were authorised. The reviewers didn't get sued, because the firms didn't think that would work out as to cost/benefit. And the authors don't even, realisitically, get blacklisted. The world just moves on. Thus, your "Avoid breaching the NDA" would be better if it were qualifed and put in perspective: Avoid breaching the NDA, or else what, _really_? Are all breaches equal? What happens if you end up violating the NDA despite your intention to the contrary, either by accident or because it was the lesser of two evils? If someone does sue you for breach of contract (i.e., the NDA), then what determine whether they're likely to prevail, and what they're likely to get? From jla1200 at netzero.net Fri Dec 23 12:20:35 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:20:35 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy Badger Message-ID: <000701c607fe$55fefe20$eab85545@oemcomputer> Rick or Daniel: Here is the output from my terminal. Do you have any suggestions to get Netzero going. I added L modemttySo like Daniel suggested to /etc/udev/links.conf. The modem link.(ln -s ttyS0 modem) has to recreated each time but still doesn't solve the problem. jla at vstrom:~$ Netzero & bash: Netzero: command not found [1] 7937 [1] Exit 127 Netzero jla at vstrom:~$ cd /dev jla at vstrom:/dev$ ls -l modem lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2005-12-23 11:38 modem -> ttyS0 jla at vstrom:/dev$ cd jla at vstrom:~$ cd /etc jla at vstrom:/etc$ cd udev jla at vstrom:/etc/udev$ cat links.conf # This file does not exist. Please do not ask the debian maintainer about it. # You may use it to do strange and wonderful things, at your risk. L fd /proc/self/fd L stdin /proc/self/fd/0 L stdout /proc/self/fd/1 L stderr /proc/self/fd/2 L core /proc/kcore L sndstat /proc/asound/oss/sndstat L MAKEDEV /sbin/MAKEDEV L modemttyS0 D pts D shm # Hic sunt leones. M ppp c 108 0 D loop M loop/0 b 7 0 D net M net/tun c 10 200 From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 23 15:40:11 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 15:40:11 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy Badger References: Message-ID: The line I suggested adding to /etc/udev/links.conf was "capital-L-space-m-o-d-e-m-tab-t-t-y-capital-S-zero" to keep the link from needing to be recreated each time. You seem to have left out the tab. After you have that line correct, reboot. After the reboot, check to see whether the link is there. If it isn't, that needs to be fixed some way, but for the time being, create it yourself. On the other hand, if it is there, proceed to the next phase of the diagnostic: You had mentioned earlier that kppp recognizes the modem, which I take to mean it can dial. Make sure this is still working, first with kppp configured to use /dev/ttyS0, and then again with it configured to use /dev/modem. If either of those fails, that needs to be fixed in some way. If they both work, proceed to the next phase: Open the NetZero icon on your desktop and try to connect. Write down whatever error message it prints exactly. PS- One more thing I need to know: In the event that kppp is able to dial with /dev/modem but NetZero is not, make a note of whether or not kppp asks you for your password at any given point in time, and let me know. On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:20:35 -0800, John Andrews wrote: > Rick or Daniel: > Here is the output from my terminal. Do you have any suggestions to get > Netzero going. I added L modemttySo like Daniel suggested to > /etc/udev/links.conf. > The modem link.(ln -s ttyS0 modem) has to recreated each time but still > doesn't solve the problem. > > jla at vstrom:~$ Netzero & > bash: Netzero: command not found > [1] 7937 > [1] Exit 127 Netzero > jla at vstrom:~$ cd /dev > jla at vstrom:/dev$ ls -l modem > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 2005-12-23 11:38 modem -> ttyS0 > jla at vstrom:/dev$ cd > jla at vstrom:~$ cd /etc > jla at vstrom:/etc$ cd udev > jla at vstrom:/etc/udev$ cat links.conf > # This file does not exist. Please do not ask the debian maintainer about > it. > # You may use it to do strange and wonderful things, at your risk. > > L fd /proc/self/fd > L stdin /proc/self/fd/0 > L stdout /proc/self/fd/1 > L stderr /proc/self/fd/2 > L core /proc/kcore > L sndstat /proc/asound/oss/sndstat > L MAKEDEV /sbin/MAKEDEV > L modemttyS0 > > D pts > D shm > > # Hic sunt leones. > M ppp c 108 0 > D loop > M loop/0 b 7 0 > D net > M net/tun c 10 200 From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 23 20:21:41 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:21:41 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Not that they asked my opinion, but: Message-ID: <20051224042141.GO9804@linuxmafia.com> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html Rick Moen . . . INOLJ-OOW2.0C (Is Not On LiveJournal Or Other Web 2.0 Cults) No, I'm really not interested in your Web-based "social network". And my data aren't going onto your Web-hosted "service". I've been spammed by Orkut, LiveJournal, GreatestJournal, Xanga, LinkedIn, MeetUp, Friendster, ArtBoom, openBC, Bebo, MySpace, hi5.com, Memetika, Ryze, and Tribe.net all telling me over and over how they're going to "build my social network", even though I'm absolutely not interested. On the app-server side, TextDrive, FilmLoop, Flickr, del.icio.us, GMail, Basecamp, 43 Things, Socialtext.net, Frappr, Blinksale, Protopage, Plaxo, Favorville, snapmania, and Fotki all say they're rapturously eager to do me the great favour of storing my personal data for me, telling me all about the "convenience" of not having to do it myself. [...] From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Fri Dec 23 21:29:42 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:29:42 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Analysis of netzero.deb Message-ID: I decided to take a look at NetZero's website to see their Lindows/Linspire package myself. They have some instructions on its usage, and the screenshots clearly show that it is version 6, but on John's system, I noticed that he had version 5, which is apparently now neither available nor supported, so I'm guessing that he downloaded it quite some time ago. Navigating their website did not allow me to download their Lindows/Linspire software without having a NetZero account, but evidently if I had that, the website would simply have given me the same download link I got from the topmost link on Google's first search results page: http://dl.netzero.net/pub/netzero/linux/lindows/netzero.deb The package, a 1.7MiB download, installs some files here and there to support the software it installs into /opt/nzclient. Among these is a "desktop config file" in root's home directory that would tell GNOME or KDE what to run if clicked, and what icon to display, among other things. The file it says to run appeared to be a shell script, but turned out to be nothing more than a line to pass a specific classpath to Java. Indeed, it appears NetZero's Linux software is written almost entirely in Java, so any Linux on any architecture could potentially use it to connect to NetZero, as long as a Java Runtime Environment is installed. However, the package does have a file "nzppp" in it, and it's an i386 dynamically linked executable which is not stripped. A quick look at the file reveals it to be some kind of modification to the following GPL code: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/system/network/serial/ppp/pppsetup.2.28.tar.gz Therefore, all it would take to get their software working on a K/X/Ubuntu or Debian system running on either PowerPC or AMD64 would be a simple GPL source code request for their modifications to that piece of code, which can then simply be recompiled. Since that code does not do much, I'm wondering why they didn't just do what it does using proprietary Java code, like the rest of the package. A GPL source code request may prompt them to do just that, which would still accomplish the NetZero-on-other-architectures feat, by instantly making the package platform-independent. No reverse engineering necessary either way. It's no surprise that there are reports that NetZero's software will not function properly without superuser privileges, but something doesn't feel right about granting such privileges to a Java Virtual Machine. Still, you gotta do what you gotta do. From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Sat Dec 24 22:43:25 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 22:43:25 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Obscure Way to Drastically Improve User Experience under Debian or K/X/Ubuntu (or MEPIS or Knoppix/Kanotix, etc.) Message-ID: Most RPM-based distros, as well as DEB-based Fink, provide an optional package, sometimes installed by default, that magically makes tabbing in the bash shell context-sensitive. For example, without this package, if you type "cd foo" and press tab when you have a file named foo1 and a folder named foo2, it will beep and not do anything. A second tab will show you both foo1 and foo2 as possible choices, because it's too stupid to know that foo1 is a file, and that cd only operates on folders. If the package is installed, the tab will choose foo2 for you. In fact, if you have no other folders, only files, you could just type "cd " and press tab for it to choose foo2 for you. This doesn't just apply to cd, but to all sorts of commands, allowing you to type just part of an option or operand. Where then, does one obtain such a magical package for Debian? The answer is that under Debian, the stuff in that package is always installed, but never used unless you deliberately enable it. Whereas under RPM-based distros, the trick to enable or disable it is the simple installation or removal of a single package, under Debian, it's buried in a config file. Open the oddly named file /etc/bash.bashrc in your favorite editor with superuser privileges, and you will see the last three lines of the file commented out. Uncomment them and save changes. The next time you start a shell, tabs will be context-sensitive. From moseley at hank.org Sun Dec 25 21:57:35 2005 From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 21:57:35 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Obscure Way to Drastically Improve User Experience under Debian or K/X/Ubuntu (or MEPIS or Knoppix/Kanotix, etc.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051226055735.GA31243@hank.org> On Sat, Dec 24, 2005 at 10:43:25PM -0800, Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: > Open the oddly named file /etc/bash.bashrc in your favorite editor with > superuser privileges, and you will see the last three lines of the file > commented out. Uncomment them and save changes. The next time you start a > shell, tabs will be context-sensitive. It's also in $HOME/.bashrc Kind of a mixed blessing in the default setup. For example, zless works on plain text files, but with the default completion, tab no longer gives all files as an option. -- Bill Moseley moseley at hank.org From mark.weisler at comcast.net Tue Dec 27 06:07:04 2005 From: mark.weisler at comcast.net (mark weisler) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 06:07:04 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Obscure Way to Drastically Improve User Experience under Debian or K/X/Ubuntu (or MEPIS or Knoppix/Kanotix, etc.) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200512270607.08817.mark.weisler@comcast.net> On Saturday 24 December 2005 22:43, Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: > Most RPM-based distros, as well as DEB-based Fink, provide an optional > package, sometimes installed by default, that magically makes tabbing in > the bash shell context-sensitive. For example, without this package, if > you type "cd foo" and press tab when you have a file named foo1 and a > folder named foo2, it will beep and not do anything. snip... > Uncomment them and save changes. The next time you start a > shell, tabs will be context-sensitive. This useful tip works for me. Thanks for passing it on. Might it be good to give this tip wider circulation by, say, offering it to Linux Journal or a similar purveyor of tips and tools? -- Mark Weisler mark.weisler at comcast.net PGP Key 4096/1024 23FFF8B468E462B6 Key fingerprint = 87D5 A77B FC47 3CC3 DFF0 586D 23FF F8B4 68E4 62B6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Tue Dec 27 08:26:44 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 08:26:44 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Obscure Way to Drastically Improve User Experience under Debian or K/X/Ubuntu (or MEPIS or Knoppix/Kanotix, etc.) References: Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 06:07:04 -0800, mark weisler wrote: > On Saturday 24 December 2005 22:43, Daniel Gimpelevich wrote: >> Most RPM-based distros, as well as DEB-based Fink, provide an optional >> package, sometimes installed by default, that magically makes tabbing in >> the bash shell context-sensitive. For example, without this package, if >> you type "cd foo" and press tab when you have a file named foo1 and a >> folder named foo2, it will beep and not do anything. > snip... >> Uncomment them and save changes. The next time you start a >> shell, tabs will be context-sensitive. > This useful tip works for me. Thanks for passing it on. Might it be good to > give this tip wider circulation by, say, offering it to Linux Journal or a > similar purveyor of tips and tools? This information is only obscure in the sense that it's so non-obvious where to find it out. It's clearly spelled out in the file /usr/share/doc/bash/README.bash_completion.gz, and it is not an uncommon practice to read the /usr/share/doc files specific to Debian for packages you install. The problem lies in the fact that the package "bash" is always installed, so this file is not likely to be seen. It never even occurred to myself to look for such a file there. What I did was search packages.ubuntu.com for filenames containing "bash_completion" (the name of the aforementioned RPM package), and this was one of the files that popped up. As soon as I saw its name and location, I knew it would contain the information I was seeking. I personally would not consider LinuxJournal or the like to be a substitute for RTFMing, but if others do, I wouldn't really care who submits this trivial thing. Also, for the hardcore command-line fan, this "feature" is a trade-off, as Bill said, which is why it's disabled by default. An additional annoyance it introduces is that, with it enabled, usage of the "$_" variable fails at seemingly random times. While I may consider that a relatively fair price to pay, I'm sure there are others who would not. From jla1200 at netzero.net Wed Dec 28 18:23:16 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:23:16 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy/kppp/Netzero Message-ID: <000101c60c26$a19c3f60$a4b95545@oemcomputer> Daniel I appreciated your analysis of Netzero.deb. I've looked at dozens of articles and not many have come up with a way to run it on linux. I'm about to give up on it and try one which is linux friendly called highstream.com. I'm trying to establish that my kppp works right. When you are configuiring it and query the modem while you are in the configuation mode it responds properly. Even if you switch /dev/modem and /dev/ttyS0 between two boxes you still get a positive response.However when you start it from a terminal and then hit the connect button you get this result and kppp freezes up.Do you have any ideas as to what is causing it to freeze up? jla at vstrom $ kppp The kppp starts properly at this point. Then when you try to connect it does this . opener: received setsecret opener: received setsecret opener: received openlock opener: received opendevice From daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us Thu Dec 29 00:07:28 2005 From: daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us (Daniel Gimpelevich) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:07:28 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy/kppp/Netzero References: Message-ID: On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:23:16 -0800, John Andrews wrote: > Daniel > I appreciated your analysis of Netzero.deb. I've looked at dozens of > articles and not many have come up with a way to run it on linux. I'm about > to give up on it and try one which is linux friendly called highstream.com. That's always your option, but if you're having problems dealing with connect issues on one ISP in a Linuxy manner, you're going to have similar problems dealing with any connect issues that may arise on another ISP, and I'm not referring to technical problems. In the message immediately prior to my "Analysis" message, I broke a diagnostic workflow down into steps, and asked you to report the results of each step. Either I am having severe trouble recognizing your report back as being the results of those steps, or you just did your own thing, which may or may not be equally helpful to me in helping you, as I shall attempt to make sense out of it below in the context of what you're trying to accomplish. Furthermore, let it be known that I wanted to see for myself how quickly I could connect to NetZero under Linux myself, so I booted the Knoppix 4.0.2 CD a few minutes ago, downloaded and installed the NetZero client, and made sure it would be my only net-connection by turning off Ethernet with: sudo ifconfig eth0 down I created the /dev/modem symlink and then started the NetZero client with: sudo -b /opt/nzclient/runclient.sh I told it to create a new account, and it successfully dialed the modem and connected. It told me to wait for the sign-up window to appear, and Firefox opened a blank window (I already had Konqueror running) and complained that it wasn't able to reach the URL, without telling me what the URL was. I told Firefox to go to www.netzero.com, and it instantly redirected me to www.netzero.net and successfully displayed that page at dial-up speed. I then tried a non-NetZero URL, and their proxy kicked in, telling me that I need to be logged in to a NetZero account in order to do that. So, presumably, I could then use the NetZero website to create an account while connected to NetZero, and then go back to the other window that was still waiting for sign-up information, put the new account information in there, and be off! > I'm trying to establish that my kppp works right. When you are By "works right" I understand you to mean: dials, connects to remote modem, fails to establish PPP link. > configuiring it and query the modem while you are in the configuation mode > it responds properly. Even if you switch /dev/modem and /dev/ttyS0 between > two boxes you still get a positive response.However when you start it from a I'm not sure what you mean by switching them "between two boxes" here. Are you switching between two computers? Are you switching the modem connection on the back of the computer? What I asked you to do was switch kppp's connection between /dev/ttyS0 and /dev/modem and see whether it behaves identically with each, to test the usability of the /dev/modem symlink, and nothing more. > terminal and then hit the connect button you get this result and kppp > freezes up.Do you have any ideas as to what is causing it to freeze up? I did not ask you to start kppp from the terminal, but I did ask whether it asks for a password at any time when you start it from the K menu (sorry if I wasn't specific enough). If it asks for a password, it is doing so in order to become root. If it normally needs to be root, but you start it without root privileges by, for example, typing only "kppp" in the terminal, don't expect it to work properly. On the other hand, if kppp never asks for a password when started from the K menu, I have no idea what is causing it to freeze up. > jla at vstrom $ kppp The kppp starts properly at this point. Then when > you try to connect it does this . > > opener: received setsecret > opener: received setsecret > opener: received openlock > opener: received opendevice Yeah, those are largely irrelevant-to-the-ultimate-goal internal kppp messages. If kppp is able to dial when started from the K menu and told to use /dev/modem, the symlink works, and you don't need to have anything more to do with kppp. On to the NetZero client. Is it now able to dial and attempt to connect? If not, tell me _exactly_ what it says in the little window that tells you something is wrong. If, on the other hand, it successfully dials and then flakes out while trying to establish a connection to NetZero, THEN THIS PHASE OF THE TEST HAS CONCLUDED WITH A SUCCESS. Do not interpret failure to establish a connection at this particular point in the process as a bad thing, because it is known that the NetZero client cannot function properly without root privileges, and you have not given it those yet, and should not until everything else is verified to be as it should be. When you get to that stage, the way I would recommend for specifically you to accomplish that would be to right-click on the NetZero icon on your desktop, select Properties, click on the Application tab, and edit the Command field to begin with "gksudo " so that it says "gksudo /opt/whatever" there, and click OK. Note that gksudo is part of Ubuntu, not Kubuntu, but you have them both installed in a combined system, and I would consider gksudo to be a more straightforward option in such a case than either kdesu or the Advanced Options button in that Application tab, which also allows running as a different user, such as root. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 29 01:18:29 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:18:29 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Breezy/kppp/Netzero In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20051229091828.GM7646@linuxmafia.com> Just hoping to assist, in case one minor point in Daniel's excellent analysis & explanation was unclear, I'll step in briefly: > On to the NetZero client. Is it now able to dial and attempt to > connect? If not, tell me _exactly_ what it says in the little window > that tells you something is wrong. If, on the other hand, it > successfully dials and then flakes out while trying to establish a > connection to NetZero, THEN THIS PHASE OF THE TEST HAS CONCLUDED WITH > A SUCCESS. Do not interpret failure to establish a connection at this > particular point in the process as a bad thing, because it is known > that the NetZero client cannot function properly without root > privileges, and you have not given it those yet, and should not until > everything else is verified to be as it should be. When you get to > that stage, the way I would recommend for specifically you to > accomplish that would be to right-click on the NetZero icon on your > desktop, select Properties, click on the Application tab, and edit the > Command field to begin with "gksudo " so that it says "gksudo > /opt/whatever" there, and click OK. John, the "gksudo" utility is a graphical wrapper around "sudo" (the Substitute User Do command) that lets you run some specified command as if you were another user -- such as the root user, which is the user implied by default unless otherwise specified. As Daniel notes, up through the present, he's been attempting to have you do particular steps with the NetZero binary (and other things) for _diagnostic purposes_. He's been wanting you to carry out particular, exact steps and report back with the exact results. There actually were good reasons why he's wanted you to do those things, and you'll get a lot better assistance, in general, if you'll cooperate with people attempting to assist you rather than ignoring (or at least, rather freely reinterpreting) their suggestions and requests. I mean, presumably you're asking Linux diagnostic help from people you suspect are better at that than you, right? ;-> Any, _after_ you've carried out the other steps Daniel suggested, the purpose of editing the NetZero KDE icon's Command properties to prepend "gksudo " is so that -- as the _last_ step of fixing your setup, the NetZero dialer is able to operate with root-user authority even though you're otherwise running things as user jla. -- Cheers, Now, it's time to hack the real world, and let other Rick Moen people write Web sites about it. rick at linuxmafia.com -- Donald B. Marti From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 29 17:05:03 2005 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:05:03 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Software for making Frappr clones Message-ID: <20051230010503.GD20384@linuxmafia.com> (With luck, this mailing list post will show up when people search for "Frappr clone". There: Now, I've said it twice.) I note the coincidence of these two posts today, one by BayLISA president Jennifer Davis on BayLISA's main mailing list, the other by me on Usenet. (I _do_ support Jennifer's initiatives. I just favour open source and no dependencies on proprietary company services.) Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:20:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jennifer Davis To: baylisa at baylisa.org Subject: Frappr! Borrowing a page from LOPSA, I've created a Frappr group for BayLISA: http://www.frappr.com/baylisa It would be good to see where people are localized around the Bay area so we have a better idea as to where it's good to have meetings/events. All it takes is a name and a city to add yourself to the map, so please do. Thanks! Jennifer From: Rick Moen Subject: Re: frappr for the freeware community ? Newsgroups: alt.comp.freeware References: <43a803ed$0$21257$8fcfb975 at news.wanadoo.fr> Organization: If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already. FTR wrote: > One of the last gadgets in the community 'business' is to map the > locations of community members. www.frappr.com is one which is nice > and simple. "Frappr" (from "friend mapper") is an example of "social software" developed as a Web application "mashup"[1] using the proprietary Google Maps application's public programming interface. I'm personally much more curious about free software (aka open source) implementations of the same general idea -- so that people can accomplish the same goals without becoming dependent on some Web 2.0 company to go your computing, hold your data, collect logfiles tracking your interests, blitz you with advertising, etc. -- those being the way those companies make money.[2] Looks like this page has information on open-source geographical information services in general: http://www.opensourcegis.org/ Included in those listings are MapServer and MapServer Enterprise, two open-source _engines_ usable for developing Web-based map applications. I'll be curious to see if someone comes out with, e.g., a clone of Frappr in Ruby on Rails, preferably without the dependency on Google Maps. > Wouldn't it be nice to see where all the people of this active list > live ? To see how the world is populated by freeware activists (or, at > least, sympathisers, and users) ? Wouldn't it be even nice if they were to do that using their own resources, rather than Frappr's and Google's? ;-> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashup_(web_application_hybrid) [2] http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html -- Cheers, Now, it's time to hack the real world, and let other Rick Moen people write Web sites about it. rick at linuxmafia.com -- Donald B. Marti From jla1200 at netzero.net Sat Dec 31 12:24:41 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:24:41 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy Message-ID: <200512311224.41552.> Daniel & Rick FINALLY, FINALLY got Netzero going on Breezy Badger. That gksudo command did the trick.It runs without any netzero ad bar like it has on windoze.I've got lots of things to experiment and study now. Thanks for all your help. John From jla1200 at netzero.net Sat Dec 31 12:26:54 2005 From: jla1200 at netzero.net (John Andrews) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:26:54 -0800 Subject: [conspire] Netzero/Breezy Message-ID: <200512311226.54400.> Daniel & Rick FINALLY, FINALLY got Netzero going on Breezy Badger. That gksudo command did the trick.It runs without any netzero ad bar like it has on windoze.I've got lots of things to experiment and study now. Thanks for all your help. John