[ Contents | Administrivia | The Shadow | Non-Dark | Sources | Prophecy | Publishing | Keywords | Sitemap ]

2.2.7: Verin-- Black, Brown, or Purple?

[Sean Hillyard, Mike Lemons, Judy Ghirardelli, Emma Pease, Erica Sadun, Pam Korda, Keith Casner, etc]

Verin's suspicious behavior

1) VERINISM: In TGH, Verin tells the boys that Moiraine sent her to look after them: [TGH: 14, Wolfbrother, 195] "Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar," Verin announced with a satisfied smile. "She thought you might need me." Moiraine later says that she did NOT send Verin: [TGH: 49, What was Meant To Be, 572] "I did not send Verin." Moiraine frowned. "She did that on her own." It is pretty obvious that Moiraine is not BA, so that implies that Verin lied, and hence must be BA.

EXPLANATION: Verin could have been tricked by somebody masquerading as Moiraine. Or, perhaps she managed to find an interpretation of her words that could be taken as the truth. (Moiraine wanted somebody to watch over you guys, but she couldn't be here...) Now, MAYBE Verin is using some sneaky thought process to get around the Oath: '"Moiraine Sedai sent me, Lord Ingtar," Verin announced with a satisfied smile (recalling how satisfying the beer and pizza Moiraine had sent her for had been, and also how satisfying it had been to come up with a literally true statement which would preclude any questions from Rand, et. al.)' [Edward Measure]

Here is a bit in [TGH: 7, Blood Calls Blood, 87], which might well offer an explanation: Moiraine remarks to Verin, "Then we must find the dagger, Sister. Agelmar is sending men to hunt those who took the Horn and slew his oathmen, the same who took the dagger. If one is found, the other will be." Verin could have been engaging in her usual word-twisting to come up with "Moiraine sent me." It is not so clear how one gets "She thought you might need me" out of that-- maybe she was referring to the AS speculation that Mat would die quickly if he didn't get the dagger back, and so he might need more healing. [John Novak]

In [TPOD: Prologue, Deceptive Appearances, 39-41], we learn that Verin has worked out a subtle form of Compulsion which conveniently leaves the victim forgetful of their "session" with Verin. Perhaps Verin compelled Moiraine to send her. "Moiraine Sedai sent me (because I made her), Lord Ingtar." [Tony Evans]

At a signing in Atlanta, RJ said that this discrepancy is not a mis-step.

2) VERINISM: Verin does not give Corianin's notes to Egwene along with the dream ring [TDR: 21, A World of Dreams, 187]. Maybe she wanted Egwene to get killed, or caught by some Forsaken?

EXPLANATION: Four reasons that Verin wouldn't want to show the manuscript to Egwene: 1) Verin is afraid that Egwene would not continue if she knew how dangerous it is. 2) Verin is afraid that Egwene would not continue if she knew who or what must be sacrificed. 3) The very nature of prophecy requires that it be vague or kept secret. 4) Maybe Verin was afraid that Egwene was a Darkfriend. Also, note that she considered giving the notes to Egwene, but decided not to. If she was withholding the notes for a nefarious purpose, she wouldn't have even considered it.

3) VERINISM: Her suspicious behavior in the Two Rivers: a) Misleads Perrin as to why she and Alanna are there [TSR: 31, Assurances, 345-6]. b) Tells Perrin not to trust Alanna, perhaps laying a false trail? [TSR: 33, A New Weave in the Pattern, 373]. c) She also knows Luc is the missing Lord Luc, Tigraine's brother who disappeared in the Blight. She knows he is mentioned in the Dark Prophecy, yet she does not warn anyone about him, or tell them who he is?

EXPLANATION: a) and b) are typical Aes Sedai behavior. Furthermore, since Alanna had recently lost a Warder, Verin may have been worried that she would try to bond Perrin, as she later did to Rand. As for c)...

4) VERINISM: Only three characters have referred to Perrin's choice of hammer or axe: Ishamael, Lanfear and Verin. This puts Verin in very suspicious company.

EXPLANATION: Verin is Brown Ajah, and thus is likely to know all sorts of obscure things. Perhaps there is a prophecy involving blacksmiths, hammers, and axes. (Also note that the above statement is somewhat false: Egwene also knows about the hammer/axe choice. She dreamed it.)

5) VERINISM: She was observed in deep conversation with Barthanes, a known Darkfriend, at the party in [TGH: 33, A Message From the Dark, 397]. When Hurin approached them, Verin waved him away. Perhaps they were discussing "business matters?"

EXPLANATION: No, they were just talking about the weather/politics/etc and Verin didn't want some Shienaran servant butting into her conversation; it wouldn't look right and might make Barthanes suspicious.

6) VERINISM: In [TFoH: 53, Fading Words, 638] Moiraine mentions to Rand in her last letter not to trust Alviarin, who is definitely a Darkfriend, and Verin. Additionally, Siuan mentions that Verin never told her about giving Egwene a ter'angreal.

EXPLANATION: The former is just an exercise in contrasts. Moiraine is saying: "Don't trust ANYBODY. You are rightly suspicious of Alviarin, but you should be equally suspicious of those you think you can trust, like Verin." As for the latter, why should she tell SS?

7) VERINISM: Draghkar Attack on Moiraine [TGH: 22, Watchers, 278-9] was executed at least with Aes Sedai help (the warding on them so they couldn't be sensed). Moiraine seemed to think that pretty much everyone in the Tower had forgotten about these old hermit Aes Sedai. However, we do know one individual old enough to remember them who could have ordered the attack --Verin.

EXPLANATION: This is totally wimpy speculation, and wouldn't even be here, except that somebody might bring it up again. Liandrin (known BA) could have easily followed Moiraine there, and one of the sisters may be BA. (See section 1.4.8.)

8) VERINISM: Verin and the art of Stedding Channeling: in [TGH: 29, Among the Elders, 435], she inspects an Ogier who lost his mind to Machin Shin in the Ways. For all intents and purposes, it looks like she's Delving him with the OP. However, she is in a stedding, where touching the OP is impossible. Even more, nobody thinks this is weird!

EXPLANATION? Possibly, she didn't do the OP thing; she did something else to see if there was anybody home. Maybe she spat in his eye, or something. At a post-ACOS signing [Vancouver, 24 August, 1996], RJ told Lara Beaton that "we're going to find out something in the next few books about people without souls and characteristics of them. (he started out saying that we're going to find out something significant about Verin, then stopped)."

In the Prologue of TPOD, we get a scene which is from Verin's point of view. At several points in that section, Verin uses clever thought processes and tricks of the tongue to avoid telling untruths. This is consistent with what one would expect of an AS bound by the First Oath. Now, any intelligent BA would get into the habit of following the Oath as a matter of course, because being caught lying could lead to the discovery of the BA. However, consider the bit in [TPOD: Prologue, Deceptive Appearances, 41], when Beldeine comes out of the Compulsion-trance. She asks Verin if she fainted. Verin replies, "The heat is very bad. I have felt lightheaded myself once or twice today." Then, in her own mind, she thinks that her own lightheadedness was "from weariness, not heat. Handling that much of saidar took it out of you." If Verin is not bound by the first Oath, she should not have needed to justify that misleading statement to herself. It's not something that anybody could ever have found out about, and is utterly trivial, besides. On the other hand, it might simply be a habit, especially if she turned BA after having been AS for a long time. However, Verin's self-justifications do seem to indicate that she is bound by the First Oath, and is not Black Ajah (just very dark Brown).

Alternative Verin Speculations

1) Something in those Notes Theory: We know Verin had access to Corianin Nedeal's notes. There is something in those notes that Verin doesn't want anybody to know about, something so potentially dangerous that she'd consider destroying the notes and all the knowledge contained therein. What if, in those notes, Corianin Nedeal describes how she discovered how to break the Three Oaths in T'A'R? That would certainly explain why she wouldn't want Eg to have the notes, especially after her speech at the start of TDR about how important the Oaths are. This would also explain how she managed to lie about Moiraine sending her. However, Verin's mental self-justifications in [TPOD: Prologue, Deceptive Appearances, 41] seem to indicate that she is bound by the First Oath, as noted above. However, who knows what eldrich knowledge is contained in the notes? Who knows what Verin saw when she tried out the ter'angreal to go to T'A'R? This could explain all sorts of Verinisms.

2) Verin == Corianin Theory: Verin is Corianin Nedeal herself, and is thus very, very, old. That is how she got her hands on the ring ter'angreal. Problem: In [TDR: 21, A World of Dreams, 191], Verin is thinking on Nedeal's notes, and thinks of Nedeal in the third person. One doesn't usually refer to oneself in the third person. Another problem (which is also present in related Very Old Verin (VOV) theories is that if there was a 400+ year-old Aes Sedai lurking around the Tower, surely somebody would have noticed by now. Furthermore, Verin is probably not older than 300 years (see below), and thus cannot be Corianin.

3) Second Foundation Ajah Theory (aka Purple Ajah Theory): Verin is a member of a secret society whose members preserve ancient knowledge for humanity's need at the Last Battle. The existence of the BA shows that it is possible for a secret group to exist in the Tower-- if there is a group dedicated to evil, why not a group dedicated to good? Problem: there have always been rumors of the BA. Nothing can be kept secret for centuries in a place with so many people in it, and so much scheming as the White Tower. And yet, we've never heard any hint of this secret group.

4) Very Old Verin: Verin is very, very old, and pre-dates the lying Oath, and is thus not bound to it. This theory has been proposed as part of various Second Foundation Ajah theories, Corianin Nedeal theories, as well as independently. Problem: Verin would have to be 1000+ years old. We have seen no evidence, even in the AoL, that anybody lives that long, without help from the DO. Plus, wouldn't anybody notice that Verin had outlived dozens of Amyrlin Seats? Furthermore, the upper bound on Verin's age (see below) is ~300. This is not old enough for her to date from a pre-OR time.

How old is Verin?

Many pet theories hinge upon this question. From [LOC: 11, Lessons and Teachers, 207], we know that Verin has been working on some plan for about 70 years. This sets a lower bound on Verin's age. The only other possible clue is [LOC: 43, The Crown of Roses, 549]. Merana Sedai is considering the pecking order among the AS in Caemlyn: "Merana had been Aes Sedai ten years the day the midwife laid Alanna at her mother's breast...Verin was the problem...Five years as novice for each, six as Accepted; that was one thing every Aes Sedai knew about every other if she knew nothing else. The difference was that Verin was older, maybe almost as much older than she as she was older than Alanna." We know that the Tower doesn't take women much older than Ny for Novices, and an average novice starts at about the age Elayne and Egwene did (17-18). For the Very Old Verin folks, lets say both Merana and Verin started late-- 24 (Ny was an exception, they only took her because she was so strong). So if Alanna is about 70 (in [TPOD: 12, New Alliances, 276], Cadsuane thinks that Alanna has "worn the shawl almost forty years"), Merana is 24 + 11 years training + 10 years as full AS = 45 years older than Alanna, that is, 150 years old. If Verin is as much older than Merana as Merana is older than Alanna, then Verin is 150 + 45 = 195 years old. So if Merana is right about how much older Verin is than she, Verin cannot be much older than 195 years.

More than once, Cadsuane Melaidhrin is described as "the oldest Aes Sedai." In [ACOS: Glossary, 671], is says she is "thought to have been born around 705 NE," which would make her around 300 years old. She's also the most powerful AS apart from El, Eg, and Ny, which means she will have gotten maximum amount life-prolonging benefits of channelling. In spite of this, she is at the end of her life [ACOS: 19, Diamonds and Stars], so it is reasonable to believe that AS who are bound by the Oath Rod don't get much older than Cadsuane. If the glossary is to be believed, that is about 300 years. By implication, this puts an upper bound on Verin's age. (Assuming that the Ageless look is caused by the Oath Rod- -Verin is Ageless.)

Is Verin bound by the Oath Rod?

Furthermore, in [aol.com Chat, 27-6-96], RJ just about said straight out that Verin has held the Oath Rod. Somebody asked if it was true if he'd said that Verin had NOT held it, and if so then did Cadsuane also avoid it. His answer: "No, I did *not* say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod. Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod." Cadsuane has ALSO held it, implying that Verin has, as well.

Is there a connection between Cadsuane and Verin?

[ Previous Section | Previous | Section Contents | Next | Next Section ]

[ Contents | Administrivia | The Shadow | Non-Dark | Sources | Prophecy | Publishing | Keywords | Sitemap ]

This page was last modified on (06-Mar-2000, 10:16). Illustrations © 1989-1996 by Tor Books.