[E-mails from me to Patrick, illustrating the basic problems: (1) persistent technological cluelessness, (2) refusing to listen to corrections on verifiable matters of fact, (3) failure to comprehend that my Web/ftp hosting business does not exist for his benefit, and is not under his direction, (4) belligerence to the point of deleting unread my replies to his queries, (5) maneouvering to prevent the BAS Board of Directors hearing my viewpoint, and (6) willfully violating my copyright.] From rick Sun Sep 6 02:03:20 1998 Message-ID: <19980906020320.D8715@hugin.imat.com> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:03:20 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Upcoming BAS meetings are now on my Web page References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Porei@aol.com on Wed, Sep 02, 1998 at 09:58:34AM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 1266 Lines: 31 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > Hi Rick, If you get some free time today, will you please update > the upcoming events section of the Web Page? Hi! It took me a while, but I got it done -- and wrote personally to the several people who had inquired about upcoming BAS events. The need to rebuild my main machine -- and make changes to keep the system-cracker from breaking back in again -- put a crimp in my style, for a good bit. Among the things that the rebuild broke was my e-mail program -- and it's been this long before I got it really (properly) usable. You got the "SETI at Home" URL wrong in your earlier e-mail to me. Should be: "http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/" The interesting part is the nature of your error: You wrote "ssi" instead of "ssl": Undoubtedly, you transcribed this from something written down. It's easy to make errors doing so, and the way to avoid it is to cut-and-paste from an electronic document, instead. Don't be a stranger: Give me a page, some time, if you'd like to chat and say hello (or if you might have time to stop by): [pager number omitted] -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick (at) hugin.imat.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From rick Sun Sep 6 10:30:10 1998 Message-ID: <19980906103010.A16436@hugin.imat.com> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:30:10 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: great updates! References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Porei@aol.com on Sun, Sep 06, 1998 at 01:26:19PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 267 Lines: 10 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > Hi RIck, The former Heaven's Gate member is Todd Berger. Fixed. Thanks! -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick (at) hugin.imat.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From rick@hugin.imat.com Sun Sep 6 10:34:58 1998 Message-ID: <19980906103458.B16436@hugin.imat.com> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:34:58 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: BAS Events -- Late August/Early September? References: <8de960b5.35f2c4bb@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <8de960b5.35f2c4bb@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Sun, Sep 06, 1998 at 01:22:03PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 824 Lines: 23 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > Hi Rick, That is wonderful! Thanks alot. It looks great. Michael Shermer has > agreed to be our speaker for April. We will have to pay his airfare. (Perhaps > a few of us can chip in on that one. When the time comes, if I can find out what his flight is, I can take care of his transportation to and from the airport. (He'd be better off using Oakland International, but I can do either one. Dad was an airline pilot, so I know all about our local airports.) By the way, just to be obnoxious, here's a poem of my own composition: Alot Isnot Aword. -- Cheers, DISCLAIMER: I didn't do it. Rick Moen You can't prove it. Nobody rick (at) hugin.imat.com saw me. The sheep are lying. From rick@hugin.imat.com Sun Sep 6 10:43:19 1998 Message-ID: <19980906104319.C16436@hugin.imat.com> Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 10:43:19 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Upcoming BAS meetings are now on the Web page References: <6028f734.35f2c543@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <6028f734.35f2c543@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Sun, Sep 06, 1998 at 01:24:19PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 854 Lines: 19 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > HI RIck, I got the setihome address from the SF Chronicle. Your suggestion is > a good one about getting it directly from the internet, which I will > henceforth do. I have looked at their Web Page and it would have been easy > enough to have done it that way. At heart, I am still a print guy. Just so you know, the SF Comical gets wrong statements about the Internet far more regularly than it gets them right. I'm fond of the old grey lady (the Chron), but it's of marginal competence. For decent technology coverage, the SJ Mercury-News is your only option. 'Course, to put it in perspective, the Murky-News has the best such coverage in the _country_. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick (at) hugin.imat.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From rick@hugin.imat.com Mon Sep 7 23:18:08 1998 Message-ID: <19980907231808.A19469@hugin.imat.com> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:18:08 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Upcoming BAS meetings are now on the Web page References: <87f23c77.35f2f002@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <87f23c77.35f2f002@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Sun, Sep 06, 1998 at 04:26:42PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 754 Lines: 20 I hope you _do_ realise that I was just teasing you about "alot". Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > I agree wholeheartedly with you that the December affair should be at a > restaurant. I have some ideas about the dinner that I will briefly discuss at > the next Board Meeting (later this month). Briefly, though, I think BAS > should have an awards ceremony at the December affair. Awfully good idea. If we'd like to give out some plaques, I'll be willing to foot the bill. > On the Web Page, Bob is still listed as a Board Member but he resigned.... Fixed. Thanks for mentioning it. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick (at) hugin.imat.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta [The "Bob" referred to, above, is one of the six founders, whom Patrick attacked in group correspondence to the point where he quit the Board of Directors, instead of enduring more abuse.] From rick Tue Sep 8 15:11:17 1998 Message-ID: <19980908151117.A21090@hugin.imat.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:11:17 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Michael Shermer References: <242e79b3.35f595e9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <242e79b3.35f595e9@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Tue, Sep 08, 1998 at 04:39:05PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 1347 Lines: 35 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > hi Rick, If possible, it would be great to list Michael Shermer's local > appearances on the BAS Web Page (mentioning, of course, his upcoming BAS > lecture). Sincerely, Patrick Done. To recap: -- Th. 8 Sept, 7:30-9:00 pm, Kepler's: ADDED -- Su. 13 Sept, 5:00 pm, Spring Hill Books: ADDED -- Nov. 12-13, interviews: NOT ADDED - INSUFFICIENT DATA -- Jan., BAS lecture: ALREADY LISTED, WAITING FOR MORE DETAIL If I'm missing anything, please let me know. What's the plan for Saturday dinner? I'm occupied in S.F. from 4 pm to about 6 pm, Saturday, and free thereafter. By the way, I realise that Shermer sent _you_ one of those obnoxious HTML e-mails, and you just "forwarded" it. Still, in the future, if you get someone's funky "attachment" instead of ordinary, plain-text e-mail, please copy it to Clipboard, then paste it into a fresh e-mail from Clipboard, rather than repeating the first author's mistake ("attachments" and HTML format). (I'm tired of people e-mailing me HTML gibberish, and it's very likely that, some time soon, I'll configure my e-mail program to silently discard all arriving e-mail that's HTML-encoded. FYI.) -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick (at) hugin.imat.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From rick Mon Sep 14 01:04:11 1998 Message-ID: <19980914010411.G23246@hugin.imat.com> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:04:11 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Board Meeting References: <63ee538c.35fb189e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <63ee538c.35fb189e@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Sat, Sep 12, 1998 at 08:58:06PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 982 Lines: 26 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > Hi RIck, A version of the attached letter was mailed to you earlier this week. > Patrick Thanks. The following _isn't_ criticism, just a suggestion: Instead of attaching word-processor documents, which the recipient may well not be able to read, try just copying & pasting the text directly into your e-mail using Clipboard. To do it: Open your document (in your word processor) by double-clicking it. Do a "select all" by going to Edit Menu, Select All. Then copy to Clipboard. Open your e-mail program. Now, paste from Clipboard into the body of an e-mail. As it happened, I have nothing that can read your word-processor files, but I opened them in simple editing tools, anyway, and was able to decipher the gist of your letter from amongst a great deal of binary gibberish. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick (at) hugin.imat.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From rick Tue Sep 22 02:14:27 1998 Message-ID: <19980922021427.A18556@hugin.imat.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:14:27 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: porei@aol.com Subject: Gratuitous advice about herding cats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 Status: RO Content-Length: 3130 Lines: 62 Running Board meetings is rather like herding cats: The personnel are every bit as cooperative. Still, one tries. I have some observations/opinions that I'd like to convey. The Board meets in order to do the one thing it can't do without a meeting: Vote on motions. Motions may arise from the agenda items the meeting goes through. In informal meetings, one also allows "new business" at the agenda's end. Important point: The Board officially and literally does _nothing_ except by passing or defeating motions. Discussions and announcements of individial intentions are _not_ Board actions, in any way. The Board _cannot act_ except through such voting. What the Secretary's official Minutes show us as voting on _is_ the official sum-total of the Board's deeds. (The Minutes should show who attended, any motions' text, whether they passed or failed, and any reports approved by Board vote. Nothing else.) As meeting moderator/cat-herder, your aim is to get through the agenda + new business efficiently. The problem is that the cats you're trying to herd (the Board members) will tend to digress, start chatting, and generally forget their real purpose in attending. This is how one gets three-hour Board meetings. Now, here's the thing: Nobody will actually _complain_ about three-hour Board meetings, but they'll all go home saying "Jesus, I sacrificed an entire evening for _that_?" People cease coming and drop out, because they know it wastes too much time. The remedy? Keep telling people that they're welcome to discuss their tangential points after the meeting adjourns. Keep moving though the agenda. When it's done, adjourn. If people can't seem to move something to a quick resolution, and want to debate it endlessly, rule it deferred to next meeting, or refer it to an individual or subcommittee to report back at the next meeting, or designate someone to decide the matter on his own. The outcome is then much more pleasant: Meetings will be over in less than an hour (mine always were), and those who have other tasks elsewhere can then leave, but also anyone's welcome to stay and chat. Meetings will focus on actual business, less of which will get lost in the shuffle. Another benefit: In volunteer groups, there's an unhealthy tendency to put off decisions until everyone can get together and talk. This results in institutional paralysis between meetings, and interminable discussions during meetings, because nobody's done any discussion before the meeting. Whereas, if you zip through the agenda, and then adjourn, people will figure out very quickly that they'd better link up with Board members between meetings to do discussion. They might learn to use their telephones and e-mail, _or_ simply take action without waiting for group debate. The result is much, much better for the organisation. The above is not just theory; it's observation. Please consider giving it a try. -- Cheers, "Heedless of grammar, they all cried 'It's him!'" Rick Moen -- R.H. Barham, _Misadventure at Margate_ rick@hugin.imat.com From rick@hugin.imat.com Tue Sep 22 18:24:27 1998 Message-ID: <19980922182427.B21015@hugin.imat.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:24:27 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com, Genie , aaknepfer@sirius.com Subject: Re: Web Page References: <181c2a52.36081b9e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <181c2a52.36081b9e@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 05:50:22PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 3603 Lines: 83 This is a private e-mail, which I trust (well, not really -- see below) will not be forwarded, copied, or otherwise related to third parties: I did not consent to this e-mailed group discussion. I object to it, in fact -- but, unfortunately, you (Patrick) have left me little option but to participate in it, now that you have started it. Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > The items Arnold was referring to at the Board Meeting are located in the > Wordwide Skeptic ftp Archives in the files to classify. Yes, I gave him the exact URL in _my_ ftp tree, in _my_ "worldwide skeptic ftp archive". After my ftp archive had existed for some years, at your request I created a link from my Web page that I maintain for BAS to the ftp site as a whole. If you wish, I will be glad to remove the link on my Web page for BAS that points to my worldwide ftp archive. Additionally, if you would like me to remove any other parts of the services I provide to BAS for free, I'll be glad to oblige. > I do not believe that they belong on the BAS Web Page. The document _is not_ on what you call "the BAS Web page" (meaning my HTML that I maintain on my Web server for BAS's benefit). I strongly suggest that you re-check your facts. It is equally easy to get from "the BAS Web page", through exactly the same number of steps, to ftp://hugin.imat.com/pub/dilbert/dilbert.correlation.factor.txt Does you feel you should also object to the Dilbert Correlation Factor being "on the BAS Web page"? > Will you consider maintaining the Archives on your personal Web Page.... The question suggests that you do not understand the difference between ftp and http. It reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation. There are several further things that I notice in this situation: 1. You have elected to make a poorly-thought-out request of me without consulting with me first. 2. In so doing, you have cc'd Alfred and Genie on this discussion, knowing of the unfortunate history of complete lack of confidentiality on our Board. I now have to face the possibility that some or all of this private exchange will become publicly distributed. That is some combination of negligent and hostile on your part -- except that the intention is of nugatory importance compared to the result. 3. You have failed to ask me, first, _why_ I have the document present on my ftp site. 4. You failed to state what, if anything, about the document makes you uncomfortable, aside from Arnold's relaying of Mr. Sabsay's dislike of its existence, for reasons Arnold did not understand but felt compelled to raise for Board consideration, anyhow. (Mr. Sabsay's reason for its existence might include its revealing the nature of his dealings with us in his own words, contradicting the picture he likes to paint in public.) > Thanks. Let me be plain about this: I am aghast that you should make this request, _especially_ without talking to me first, even though you have no idea what you're talking about. Just _once_, I would like to go through an entire round of dealings with the BAS Board of Directors without being asked to do things to make Sabsay, of all people, happy. This man should not be on our agenda in any way. I do not wish to discuss Sabsay or anything about him. If you intend to have a follow-up discussion, I'd suggest making it be short, _and_ I would strongly suggest cutting out the cc's -- because there is more than one way to remove this topic from my life, and I'm very likely to use whichever one seems most effective. -- Sincerely, Rick Moen From rick Tue Sep 22 18:44:28 1998 Message-ID: <19980922184428.D21015@hugin.imat.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:44:28 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: porei@aol.com Subject: Bad address for Arnold Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 Status: RO Content-Length: 1142 Lines: 30 You may notice that your e-mail cc to Arnold bounced because you had his address wrong. To my way of thinking, this is a good thing: You should not have started a semi-public discussion in the way you did. (See the points in my other e-mail.) _If_ you elect to send Arnold a fresh copy of your cc -- which I think is every bit as bad an idea as your original posting -- then I ask that as a courtesy that you also send him my reply. To clarify: Since I replied to your entire original cc list, my reply went to the same bad address for Arnold as did your original cc'd post. It therefore likewise bounced. Therefore, I ask that you send him (at his correct address) either both posts (yours and mine) or neither. I'd prefer the latter. To reiterate: I strongly suggest that you drop the entire subject. I don't want to hear about good intentions: There's no excuse for hitting me with more about my doing things for (in effect) Sabsay's benefit. I don't want to hear more about it; I'm tired of the whole subject, and will eliminate it from my life in whatever is the most expedient way. -- Sincerely, Rick Moen From rick@hugin.imat.com Tue Sep 22 18:54:53 1998 Message-ID: <19980922185453.E21015@hugin.imat.com> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:54:53 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Gratuitous advice about herding cats References: <52c6bc83.36081406@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <52c6bc83.36081406@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 05:17:58PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 1287 Lines: 32 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > The board meeting went well. Everybody now knows what needs to be > done and most have agreed to help. You're missing the point: "Knowing what needs to be done and agreeing to help" can be done outside the time-span of a Board meeting, thereby being considerate of people's time and focussing the Board meeting itself on business. > I have no complaints about it at all. Well, I do. There was no excuse for the meeting portion of the evening taking so long. It was inconsiderate to everyone present to not finish the Board business in a timely fashion, thereby allowing people to leave if they didn't have time to stay and socialise. 75%+ of what occurred was not Board business. If the jokes and digressions were deferred to after the meeting, we had _way_ less than an hour's business. This does not bode well for future management of meetings. Please consider my suggestions, since I mean them extremely seriously, and will continue to raise them. I made a point of raising them with you privately. I would not dream of putting you on the spot in front of others before doing so. That would be an unpleasant thing to do, even in such a relatively minor matter. {_Huge_ hint there, Patrick.} -- Sincerely, Rick Moen From rick@hugin.imat.com Wed Sep 23 00:09:01 1998 Message-ID: <19980923000901.A21633@hugin.imat.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:09:01 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Web Page References: <533d35ed.36086cf7@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <533d35ed.36086cf7@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Tue, Sep 22, 1998 at 11:37:27PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 4166 Lines: 96 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > I am sorry you feel that way. I respect you, like you and value your skills > and work. I do not want to think of Daniel either. Having access to the > archives, through our Web Page, with information about him in it bothers me > and I believe it should not be there. It's "accessible through our Web page" (to reiterate: _BAS_ does not have a Web page; I contribute, gratis, a page on my Web server _for_ BAS -- and please note my copyright notice) only to the exact same extent that the Dilbert Correlation factor article is. I stated this before; you evidently have chosen not to believe me. I notice that we keep having this problem: You elect to disbelieve what I say, _including_ when I speak in my areas of professional expertise. Each time previously when this has happened (your electing to think that I did not mean literally what I said), you have later found to your regret that I meant _exactly_ what I said. I hope you will see the pattern, because we appear to be headed down the same path. > I think, too, that the majority of the Board will agree. You could attempt to strong-arm me via the Board. This would likely result in my removing the annoyance from my life, through whatever is the most efficient means. (E.g., please see below.) > I believe that the information in the archives should be preserved and > having it on your personal Web Page (the one that says specifically > "Rick Moen") will make it available. That seems like a decent > compromise to me. Patrick, I'm having to repeat myself, and I'm not happy about having to do so: _It isn't on the Web._ Do you understand that? It's not a frigging HTML document. It's part of my ftp site. If your idea of "a decent compromise" is telling me how to run my Internet server business, then you are badly and egregiously mistaken. You are suffering a disconnect with reality. > You and I have been through this before and I do not want e-mail > dialog over it. Then you would seem to be acting against your interests, since I already suggested strongly that you quit while you were behind. > I would hate to lose you, as a friend whom I respect, and as a > valued BAS Board Member. Oh, no. It's unlikely that I would simply evaporate. I would simply restructure the situation so as to eliminate the annoyance. For example, I might eliminate all direct links from my Web page for BAS to my ftp site. A more extensive remedy might be to turn the skeptics' pages on my Web server into independent pages, eliminating mention of Bay Area Skeptics. (I would of course require that BAS not copy the pages elsewhere, as that would violate my copyright notice.) The nature of the remedy I take, if any, might logically depend on the extent and nature of the annoyance you intend to continue intruding into my life. > My suggestion was reasonable and respects the feelings of the > people on the Board who are bothered by that stuff and it respects > you and it respects the value of the archives..... This is not a reasonable assessment, since you show unmistakeable signs of not understanding the essential facts. Your continuing to assert that the document is "linked to from the Web site" is one of several instances of this, as well as your failing to understand the difference between http and ftp. I'm sorry that you do not regard yourself as a technological person, but this is a technological matter that you have fundamentally and stubbornly misrepresented -- and you have, as usual, refused to believe that I meant every word of my explanation to the contrary, quite literally. > I am going to delete the remainder of your messages without reading > them. That would be foolish, since they contained information you needed, that I am not about to re-type. > If you are going to resign, tell Arnold or someone else on the Board > about me, not me. I would be far more likely to remain and assert my vote to suit my preferences -- which it appears may be increasingly likely to be at odds with yours. You claimed to value my cooperation. You are not acting that way. -- Sincerely, Rick Moen [At this point, Patrick threatened (in an e-mail not quoted) to steal my work. I immediately removed the entire BAS presence from my Internet hosting business. Then, I received the e-mail quoted below:] From rick@hugin.imat.com Wed Sep 23 11:41:46 1998 Message-ID: <19980923114146.A22835@hugin.imat.com> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:41:46 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: Web Page References: <1f0219c1.360936a1@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <1f0219c1.360936a1@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Wed, Sep 23, 1998 at 01:57:53PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 570 Lines: 18 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > We are making arrangements to have the BAS Web Page moved. If you copy my work, you violate my copyright, and I can enjoin this in court: I learned from the error of my friend Becky Long in allowing her work on her Georgia Council against Health Fraud pages to be copied without her permission, and have acted to make sure that is illegal and can be enjoined. And you have just damaged my trust in you, badly. Congratulations. -- Cheers, Rick Moen YOU! Out of the gene pool. rick (at) hugin.imat.com From Rick@hugin.imat.com Mon Sep 28 12:56:17 1998 Message-ID: <19980928125617.A8225@hugin.imat.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:56:17 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: BAS References: <1617ebc.360f0ede@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: <1617ebc.360f0ede@aol.com>; from Porei@aol.com on Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 12:21:50AM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 1977 Lines: 44 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > Rick, > BAS has a new Web Master and a new, different Web Page. Unless we have > reasons to do otherwise, we will state that you left the position for > philosophical reasons and that we appreciate your generosity and hard work. > Any response to this message will be sent to all Board Members. Through doing the following... 1. Issuing peremptory orders based on fundamental errors of fact -- on which you refused to hear the explanations, despite those errors being within my professional expertise, and (notably) not yours. 2. Refusing to clarify matters by telephone when I asked repeatedly and urgently that our discussion be taken to telephone. 3. Stating your intent to violate my long-established, posted copyright. ...you have greatly injured my trust and made my further assistance of BAS, under your chairmanship, far less likely. Upon becoming aware of point #3, I disabled access to the BAS Web presence on my Internet servers. (Probably, many Board members are unaware that I operate commercial Internet services professionally, and have been granting BAS extensive services, gratis, for years.) Why? Because what one cannot access, one also cannot illegally copy. That is why you've had to create a "new different Web page". If you "state" the above cover story, you will be dissembling to the Board of Directors: The truth of the matter is that I halted BAS's Web presence to prevent threatened theft of intellectual property. By you. Accordingly, I do not concur in your characterisation. Needless to say, my confidence in you as Chair has been greatly damaged, and I cannot currently imagine how that might be remedied. This is an extremely poor repayment for my decades of trusted work, a trust that I have never failed to justify. Please think long and carefully before asking my loyalty in the future. I feel that you have betrayed it, without cause. -- Sincerely, Rick Moen [Patrick declined to honour his promise to forward the above message to all Board members. Consequently, in this as in all other aspects of the matter, the BAS Board of Directors was prevented from hearing any viewpoint except Patrick's. To my knowledge, they are to this day ignorant of what he has done in their name.] From rick@hugin.imat.com Mon Sep 28 15:08:38 1998 Message-ID: <19980928150838.A8558@hugin.imat.com> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:08:38 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: Porei@aol.com Subject: Re: BAS References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.2 In-Reply-To: ; from Porei@aol.com on Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 05:26:30PM -0400 Status: RO Content-Length: 2281 Lines: 53 Quoting Porei@aol.com (Porei@aol.com): > You had ample opportunity to discuss the matter of Web Page content at > the Board Meeting. You absolutely refused to do so and purposely misled > the Board as to what was on the Web Page. This claim is categorically in error. What I stated at the Board meeting is exactly what I have stated all along -- and is the exact truth: There is no hyperlink from the "BAS Web page" to the described document. There is a link to my entire ftp tree, where that document resides among _thousands_ of other files, way down in a labyrinth of my text files. That is what I said at the Board meeting. > You were unwilling to compromise or in any way accommodate the wishes of > a majority of Board members,.... To the contrary: I specifically offered to remove the link from http://hugin.imat.com/bas/index.html to my ftp site. Twice. It still would have been possible to get to any part of my ftp tree, in the same general sense that it's possible to get to any URL, but that was the other factual matter on which you refused to listen. > ignored an official Board decision.... This is false. I specifically offered to remove the link from http://hugin.imat.com/bas/index.html to my ftp site, thereby satisfying your (error-based) perception that "the BAS Web site is linked to" that document. Twice, I made this offer. You did not acknowledge it, but instead reiterated your nonsensical proposal of my moving a pure-text document from my ftp site to my "personal Web page". > ...and ultimately threatened to file suit against Bay Area Skeptics. This is demonstrably false, and, if you make this assertion to others, I will consider it willful defamation. I stated: "If you copy my work, you violate my copyright, and I can enjoin this in court." At no point did I state my intention to do so: I was correctly describing a remedy that the law provides. Fortunately, there was no need to resort to it. > You were not treated badly in this matter. I understand that you are telling yourself so. This is why I doubt you will ever regain my confidence as Chair. > It is my hope that you resign from the Board. You have miscalculated. Repeatedly and severely -- and the damage to BAS is continuing with each step you're now taking. -- Sincerely, Rick Moen [When I said, above, that "there was no need to resort to it", I referred to my removing my work from public access, which I _thought_ would prevent Patrick from copying it against my express prohibition. Unfortunately, he seems to have subsequently found a copy, perhaps in someone's browser cache.]