From rick Wed Jul 21 18:48:35 2004 Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:48:35 -0700 To: dmarti@zgp.org Subject: BALE's update, and SVLUG Message-ID: <20040722014835.GQ19398@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 2984 Lines: 65 As you may be aware, BALE's group-description entry for SVLUG[1] (still) advises readers of some rules declared publicly in August 2001, by then-president and current VP Marc Merlin, for SVLUG's main mailing list: Any subscriber who o "posts snide remarks", or o "posts off-topic e-mails", or o "generally doesn't contribute to the list in a positive fashion", or o critiques ideas previously posted by others in any way, including without any form of comment on those other posters personally ...may "at the discretion" of any SVLUG officer, become subject to a variety of sanctions including summary banning from the mailing list, unsubscription from the list, or complete blockage of the subscriber's posting host IP at the MTA level -- without receiving necessarily even one warning, prior to that sanction being applied. Those exact terms in Marc's two mailing list posts on the subject, in which he spoke as club president, are directly hyperlinked to (in SVLUG's pipermail archive) from the BALE entry, so that BALE readers can verify them for themselves and confirm that I'm not making that up or exaggerating. I have been recently updating BALE and revising the descriptions of all the groups. It occurred to me that BALE's information about SVLUG's distinctive rules may or may not be current, so, I figured I should confirm them with an officer. I'll be glad to summarise on BALE whatever currently applies. If there's a public post on the subject, I'd appreciate being told where to find it. If not, I'd appreciate your permission to either make available (link from the BALE entry) or (at least) paraphrase your answer to this question. Please understand that I'm not trying to make political trouble for you: It's just that I don't want to hear from someone permanently banned for a "snide remark" complaining that BALE's removal of the advisory had mislead him, and be able to say nothing in reply but "Well, the club president told me privately it didn't apply any more, even though the public announcement said otherwise, but I can't forward that to you, sorry." Because Marc's postings were pretty clear and unequivocal -- and publicly viewable -- I'd hope that any revision would be, too. Also, this is most decidedly _not_ a push for SVLUG to do or not do anything: As always, I want _no_ part of SVLUG internal politics. I just want BALE to be accurate and current. I feel like I'm doomed to get slagged for _asking_ the above question, regardless of how I phrase it -- but on careful reflection honestly do think it's a reasonable question. Somewhat forlornly, then: No offence is intended to any person by this post, including Marc or anyone else who objects. If you feel a need to send this private e-mail to other people, I guess do it if you must -- but I'd rather you didn't, since then I get automatically slagged for involving myself in SVLUG internal matters, etc. Thanks! [1] http://linuxmafia.com/bale/#svlug From rick Thu Jul 22 17:54:23 2004 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 17:54:23 -0700 From: Rick Moen To: dmarti@zgp.org Subject: Re: BALE's update, and SVLUG Message-ID: <20040723005423.GA26191@linuxmafia.com> References: <20040722014835.GQ19398@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040722014835.GQ19398@linuxmafia.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Status: RO Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 29 (I didn't retain a copy of your punt-the-question reply, sorry. Basically you said, oops, I'll be president only for another four months, that's not enough time to say anything as president.) So, Don: The question was: Are those rules still in force? Specifically, today. Not in four months. It was a simple question. Either they are or they aren't. Which is it? The duration of your office is entirely irrelevant to that question. I ask because, even though they were allegedly so incredibly urgent as to justify threatening members with permanent IP blocking at the MTA level with no prior warning, they somehow never merited inclusion on the "SVLUG Mail Lists Netiquette and Other Guidelines" page, http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml . (The information page for the mailing list, http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug , says "Before subscribing, you should read and agree to the list policy", where "list policy" is a hyperlink to the "Lists Netiquette" page.) Far be it from me to tell SVLUG what to do, but it seems very peculiar to have such an incredibly draconian threat hanging over all subscribers and then not bother to post it on the list rules page. Thus my question. From dmarti@zgp.org Fri Jul 23 06:59:06 2004 Return-path: dmarti@zgp.org Envelope-to: rick@linuxmafia.com Delivery-date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:59:06 -0700 Received: from capsicum.zgp.org ([198.144.202.250]:38952) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34 #1) id 1Bo0Zg-0001h1-K5 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:59:06 -0700 Received: from lycopodium (ip47-168.ott.istop.com [66.11.168.47]) by capsicum.zgp.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A50D3FD2D for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 06:59:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dmarti by lycopodium with local (Exim 4.32) id 1Bnr6B-0001IZ-A1 for rick@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:51:55 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 20:51:55 -0700 From: Don Marti To: Rick Moen Message-ID: <20040723035155.GC4422@lycopodium> References: <20040722014835.GQ19398@linuxmafia.com> +<20040723005423.GA26191@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040723005423.GA26191@linuxmafia.com> X-Message-Flag: No word processor attachments. Plain text only. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040523i Sender: Don Marti Subject: Re: BALE's update, and SVLUG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 11 Rick, > Are those rules still in force? Specifically, today. Not in four > months. Yes. -- Don Marti http://zgp.org/~dmarti Learn Linux and free software dmarti@zgp.org from the experts in California, USA FOAF: http://zgp.org/~dmarti/foaf.rdf http://freedomtechnologycenter.org/